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Hello, this is a line in a Tagalog move named "Hayop ka"!.

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Author Photo by: shin23
Sep 04 2023, 10:40pm CST ~ 1 year, 2 mos ago. 
Hello, this is a line in a Tagalog move named "Hayop ka"!.
 
(1) ano bang kasungitan iyan?
 
Can I change it as follows:?
 
(2) ano bang kasungitan niyan? ("n"iyan)
(3) ano bang kasungitang iyan? (kasungitan"g")
(modified niyan to iyan)
(4) ano ba iyang kasungitan?
(5) ano bang sungit na iyan?
 
Which is correct?
Reply
 
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Author Photo DenC Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Sep 05 2023, 5:26am CST ~ 1 year, 2 mos ago. 
Hi there!
"Ano bang kasungitan iyan?" = "What even is that attitude/grouchiness?"
["ba/bang" here is an emphasizer equal to the use of "even"]
 
(2) "Iyan/'yan" is used to pertain to something either tangible [object] or intangible [idea/concept] while "niyan" is for people or objects (sometimes). The subject "kasungitan" or "attitude (negative)/grouchiness" is an idea so "iyan/'yan" should be used.
(3) "Kasungitan" is the noun of this sentence and the linker "-g/-ng" is only used in nouns when the next word is an adjective or a verb. Since "iyan" here is a pronoun, we cannot add the linker to the noun.
(5) We cannot change "kasungitan" [noun] to "sungit" [root word/adjective] because the sentence will lose its structure.
(4A) = "What even is grouchiness?" This is almost correct and it's just missing a few words. "Ba iyang" is like a deconstructed "bang". To make the sentence right, the "-ng" linker from "bang" is turned into "na" and placed after the noun = "Ano ba iyang kasungitan na iyan?"
(4B) Now the "kasungitan na iyan" can be reconstructed to become "kasungitang iyan" which is not based on what I said on (3) but still correct based on what happened to "ba iyang".
 
That was lengthy 😅 but I hope it helps. Good luck!
 
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Author Photo shin23
Sep 05 2023, 10:15pm CST ~ 1 year, 2 mos ago. 
Thanks DenC for detailed explain!
based on your answer, [o]correct or [x]incorrect sentence are follows:
 
[o] (1) ano bang kasungitan iyan?
[x] (2) ano bang kasungitan niyan? ("n"iyan)
[x] (3) ano bang kasungitang niyan?
[?] (3A) ano bang kasungitang iyan? (kasungitan"g")
[x] (4) ano ba iyang kasungitan?
 → (4A)ano ba iyang kasungitan na iyan?
 → (4B)ano ba iyang kasungitang iyan?
[x] (5) ano bang sungit na iyan? [sungit is not noun]
 
I mistook the sentence 3 in my question. I should have written "iyan" instead of "niyan".
(3A) "ano bang kasungitang iyan?" is correct sentence?
 
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Author Photo DenC Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Sep 05 2023, 11:21pm CST ~ 1 year, 2 mos ago. 
You're welcome! 😄
As for 3, the issue is with the consecutive use of the linker. To fix this, 3 has to become 4B.
As far as I know, using consecutive linkers happen in sentences with multiple adjectives like this:
"Matalinong batang babae" = "intelligent young woman" OR "intelligent girl" (since there is no one official word that pertains to a female child)
 
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Author Photo Juantutri Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Sep 06 2023, 2:27am CST ~ 1 year, 2 mos ago. 
@shin23
 
My response is limited to your initial post only to keep it less complicated. Just incorporate the explanations " DenC " gave for a more comprehensive understanding of the topics involved.
 
Sentence (1) is correct, based on usage. However, if we are to express it formally, it should be "Ano ba ANG kasungitan NA iyan? (What is that ill-temper/crankiness/grouchiness about/all about?". So, "Ano baNG kasungitan iyan?" is the same as "Ano ba NA kasungitan iyan?", but if expressed with the detached "na", it would sound rather awkward because it brings attention to the missing subject-identifier "ang".

ang kasungitan = the crankiness
na iyan = which is, that
ano (ba)? = what? ("ba" serves only as an indicator that the sentence is a question)
 
Ano ba ang kasungitan na iyan? = Ang kasungitan na iyan ay ano ba? = (lit.) The crankiness, which is, that, is what about? = What is that crankiness about?
 
Now, to answer your question. None of your given sentences - 2 to 5 - can be substituted for sentence 1 because they would either mean something else or be grammatically incorrect.
 
Here's why:
 
Sentence 2 - "Niyan" is the short form of "NG iyan", which would translate to "OF that". If by "n"iyan, which you indicated in parentheses, you meant the contraction of "NA iyan", then that would be incorrect because the linker "na" may only be attached to the end of the preceding word and not to the beginning of the succeeding word.
 
The situation would determine the validity of the sentence though.
 
If there were only 2 persons (X and Y) involved in that movie scene, then sentence 2 is grammatically incorrect. It would translate to "What is the crankiness OF THAT about?".
 
However, if there was a 3rd person (Z) involved and X made that statement to Y about the crankiness of Z, then the sentence becomes almost grammatically correct if an "ang" is added before "kasungitan". The question would sound spiteful though, because Z is being referred to as "THAT Z".
 
Ano ba ANG kasungitan niyan/NG IYAN? = What is that crankiness OF THAT (meaning Z) about?
 
There are times when we can also use the "spiteful" sentence to humor someone whom we know very well, provided it is clear to all concerned that we are in a joking mood. If that someone though is seriously cranky, then it's best that we just don't say anything at all.
 
Sentence 3 - It is grammatically incorrect.
 
Ano bang kasungitang niyan? = Ano ba NA kasungitan NA NG iyan? = (lit.) What is, which is crankiness, which is of that?
 
Sentence 4 - "Ano ba iyang kasungitan?" is grammatically correct, but it means something else. It is a question that X might ask Y if, for example, the latter said something that included the word "kasungitan", which X does not understand. So X might ask:
 
"Ano ba iyang kasungitan?" = What is that "kasungitan"?/What does "kasungitan" mean?
 
Sentence 5 - "Ano bang sungit na iyan?" = "Ano ba NA sungit NA iyan?". It is grammatically incorrect, but if we'd replace the first "na" with "ang", then the sentence would almost be the same as the very first sentence I gave above. The only difference would be the use of "sungit" instead of "kasungitan". "Kasungitan" is the proper word to use and "sungit", the root word, can be considered as the slang way of saying it.
 
Also, please note that "Hayop ka! (You're an animal!)" is an expletive that a Filipino, in a fit of rage, might say. It is a provocation. Even if it is said in a joking way among friends, it might still sting a bit. So be very careful in saying it to someone even if you're angry, as that person might just go hammer and tongs at you.
 
I guess the movie you saw has a lot of violent scenes.
 
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Author Photo shin23
Sep 06 2023, 10:29pm CST ~ 1 year, 2 mos ago. 
Thanks DenC for the answer and the explanation about consecutive linker.
 
Thanks Juantutri for detailed explanation.
 
sentence (1) is correct.
ano bang kasungitan iyan?
=ano ba ang kasungitan iyan?
=ano ba ang kasungitan na iyan?
 
but, the others are incorrect.
 
these are grammatically correct, but the meaning is not the same, and not suitable for the scene.
(2J) ano ba ang kasungitan niyan?
(4) ano ba iyang kasungitan?
 
this is ok as a slang.
(5J) ano ba ang sungit na iyan?
 
Yeah, I can not say "hayop ka!" in real life. the movie has a lot of such phrases in fighting scene.
 
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Author Photo Juantutri Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Sep 07 2023, 12:07am CST ~ 1 year, 2 mos ago. 
sentence (1) is correct.
ano bang kasungitan iyan?
=ano ba ang kasungitan iyan?
=ano ba ang kasungitan na iyan?
 
@shin23
 
It is all right to omit the "ang" in the first sentence because we do it informally as in that particular case. So the sentence is "correct" based on usage.
 
For the second sentence, when the "ang" is indicated, the "na" between "kasungitan" and "iyan" must not be omitted. That's because "iyan (that)" functions as an adjective/modifier of the noun "kasungitan" - kasungitan NA iyan/kasungitanG iyan* = that crankiness - and as such, the linker "na" is required between the noun and its modifier. Adding the "na" makes the sentence already the same as the third one, which is the grammatically correct one.
 
*Ano ba ang kasungitan NA iyan? = Ano ba ang kasungitanG iyan?
 
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Author Photo shin23
Sep 07 2023, 8:54pm CST ~ 1 year, 2 mos ago. 
Thanks Juantutri for follow up.
 
I think I misunderstood the structure of the sentence.
after removing "ba", it would be more understandable for me.
 
"anong kasungitan" + "iyan" ?
it is like,
"anong kulay" + "ang gusto mo" ?
 
"ano ang kasungitan" + "na iyan" ?
is like
"ano ang kulay" + "na gusto mo"?
 
thank you for the explains.
 
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Author Photo Juantutri Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Sep 08 2023, 6:01am CST ~ 1 year, 2 mos ago. 
@shin23
 
Although there are similarities in the patterns of the sentences you mentioned, just be aware that the "na" functions differently in "kasungitan na iyan" from that in "kulay na gusto mo".
 
The Tagalog sentences with "kasungitan" do not have a verb. (When translated to English, the verb is "to be", but Tagalog does not have the equivalent verb for it.) The "kulay" sentences do have a verb, which is why the "mo (you)" is there in order to identify the actor of the verb.
 
In the "kasungitan" sentence, "na" is the linker between a noun (kasungitan/crankiness) and its modifier/adjective (iyan/that). In the "kulay" sentences, "na" is the indicator of the object (kulay/color) of the verb (gusto/like).
 
In your "kulay" sentences, the subject changes according to which word the "ang" precedes.
 
1. Anong kulay ang gusto mo? = Ano na kulay ang gusto mo? = Ang gusto mo ay ANONG/ANO NA KULAY? = (lit.) The one you like is WHICH COLOR?
 
The subject is "one". "Na" is used as a linker between the adjective/modifier "ano (which)" and the noun "kulay (color)".
 
2. Ano ang kulay na gusto mo? = Ang KULAY NA GUSTO mo ay ano? = (lit.) The COLOR that you LIKE is which one?
 
The subject is "color". Although "one" seems to be the object of the verb, its meaning points back to "color". So "na", in effect, indicates that "kulay" is the object of the verb "gusto".
 
Though both sentences practically mean the same thing, the placement of the "ang" changes their focus or emphasis (subject), and the function of the "na" adjusts accordingly.
 
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Author Photo shin23
Sep 08 2023, 9:51pm CST ~ 1 year, 2 mos ago. 
Thanks Juantutri for clear explain.
 
noted
"ano ang kasungitan na iyan" → na is linker
"ano ang kulay na gusto mo" → na is not linker but like usage of "that"
 
> 1. Anong kulay ang gusto mo? = Ano na kulay ang gusto mo? = Ang gusto mo ay ...
the way of changing sentence is very helpful for understanding
 
Thank you very much.
 
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Author Photo Juantutri Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Sep 09 2023, 2:39am CST ~ 1 year, 2 mos ago. 
@shin23 You're welcome!
 
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Author Photo PinoyTaj Badge: Supporter
Sep 11 2023, 1:21am CST ~ 1 year, 2 mos ago. 
Niyan = ng + iyan demonstrative ng pronoun (niyan, niyon, nire, nito) can replace niya a.k.a "ng"pronouns when referring to a person. Can be used to refer to objects , people , and things and is used for things near the person being addressed. (Edited for more context)
 
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Author Photo Juantutri Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Sep 12 2023, 2:52am CST ~ 1 year, 2 mos ago. 
@PinoyTaj
This is just to give additional info about and sort out some things you mentioned.
 
"Nire (of this)" and "ire (this)" are used only by native speakers from some Tagalog regions when they mean "nito" and "ito", respectively. They are not considered as standard Tagalog/Filipino words.
 
The "niya" of "niyan" is not the same as the other "niya" you described. The only thing common between them is the spelling.
 
"Niyan (of that)" is the result of combining "ng (of)" and "iyan (that)". The first 4 letters of "NIYAn" came from "Ng IYAn" and so, its meaning is dependent on "iyan (that)".
 
Paano ang pagluto NIYAN? = How is THAT cooked? (As a demonstrative pronoun, "that (iyan)" would be referring to a thing that is near the person being addressed.)
 
The other "niya" is an independent and complete word by itself. It can either be: 1) the transformed "siya" when we replace a subject-focus verb with an object-focus verb or 2) the possessive "his/her".
 
Kumanta ba SIYA kagabi? = Did HE/SHE SING last night?
Ano ang kinanta NIYA? = What did HE/SHE SING?
 
Kumanta ang pinsan NIYA kagabi. = HIS/HER cousin sang last night.
Ano ang kinanta ng pinsan NIYA? = What did HIS/HER cousin sing?
 
SIYA ang pinsan NIYA. = HE/SHE is HIS/HER cousin.
Bago ang kotse NIYA. Itim ang kulay NIYA. = HIS/HER car is new. ITS color is black. (The thing "its" represents does not have to be nearby because "its (niya)" is not a demonstrative pronoun.)
 
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Author Photo PinoyTaj Badge: Supporter
Sep 12 2023, 9:19am CST ~ 1 year, 2 mos ago. 
PinoyTaj This is just to give additional info about and sort out some things you mentioned. "Nire (of this)" and "ire (this)" are used only by native speakers from some Tagalog regions when they mean "nito" and "ito", respectively. They are not considered as standard Tagalog/Filipino words. The "niya" of "niyan" is not the same as the other "niya" you described. The only thing common between them is the spelling. "Niyan (of that)" is the result of combining "ng (of)" and "iyan (that)". The first 4 letters of "NIYAn" came from "Ng IYAn" and so, its meaning is dependent on "iyan (that)". Paano ang pagluto NIYAN? = How is THAT cooked? (As a demonstrative pronoun, "that (iyan)" would be referring to a thing that is near the person being addressed.) The other "niya" is an independent and complete word by itself. It can either be: 1) the transformed "siya" when we replace a subject-focus verb with an object-focus verb or 2) the possessive "his/her". Kumanta ba SIYA kagabi? = Did HE/SHE SING last night? Ano ang kinanta NIYA? = What did HE/SHE SING? Kumanta ang pinsan NIYA kagabi. = HIS/HER cousin sang last night. Ano ang kinanta ng pinsan NIYA? = What did HIS/HER cousin sing? SIYA ang pinsan NIYA. = HE/SHE is HIS/HER cousin. Bago ang kotse NIYA. Itim ang kulay NIYA. = HIS/HER car is new. ITS color is black. (The thing "its" represents does not have to be nearby because "its (niya)" is not a demonstrative pronoun.)
 
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@Juantutri
 
You're mistaken. I never said niya is the niya in niyan I simply described every usage or the words and where it fits in the grammatical structure of Tagalog. Again ng (nire, nito, niyan, niyon) are the indirect demonstrative ng pronouns and actually can be used for animate or inanimate objects.
 
For example me and my friend are talking about and woman who is waiting in line accros from us, instead of saying "ang ganda nya" we can choice to say. "ang ganda niyan" .
 
The other ng DPs work the same way.
 
Ang ganda nare (tumutukoy sa tao)
 
Sobrang ganda nito (tumutukoy sa tao)
 
Even though this doesn't pertain to the question above I was explaining the basic grammar of the word which no one else did yet as that is how I determine if it could be used or not.
 
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Author Photo PinoyTaj Badge: Supporter
Sep 12 2023, 9:41am CST ~ 1 year, 2 mos ago. 
Panghalip PNH
 
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Author Photo Juantutri Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Sep 12 2023, 11:52pm CST ~ 1 year, 2 mos ago. 
@PinoyTaj
 
OK, based on your now EDITED comment, you would be correct to say this today:
 
"You're mistaken. I never said niya is the niya in niyan I simply described every usage or the words and where it fits in the grammatical structure of Tagalog."
 
However, yesterday, when I gave my reaction, this was your complete, original, and UNEDITED comment:
 
"Niyan = ng + iyan demonstrative ng pronoun (niyan, niyon, nire, nito) can replace niya when referring to a person. Can be used to refer to objects , people , and things and is used for things near the person being addressed."
 
I commented on your post because you wrote this - "... CAN REPLACE NIYA when referring to a person."
 
So, in what way was I "mistaken" when all I did in my comment yesterday was to show that "niyan", which is the topic of this thread, is not the same as "niya" and therefore, they can't be interchangeable?
 
Of course, you may choose to say "ang ganda niyan" instead of "ang ganda nya (niya)" about someone, but just be aware that what they mean are these:
 
Ang ganda niyan. = That (one) is very beautiful.
Ang ganda niya. = She is very beautiful.
 
Imagine your friend introducing his mother to you. Which of the two sentences would you then choose to say?
 
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