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Pero at Ngunit.

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Author Photo by: rambo2fit
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 5 years ago. 
Pero at Ngunit.

I think more popular and the word I am most comfortable using for english 'but' is 'pero'. Alam ko 'ngunit' can also mean 'but'. I can probably get away with using either but to sound more fluent is there a proper time and a place for one or the other?
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Author Photo EvanEsteban2
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 5 years ago. 
@rambo2fit
 
"Pero" is common in usage but is Spanish in origin. "Ngunit" and/or "subalit" are actually more appropriate but are typically used in more formal settings.
 
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Author Photo rambo2fit
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 5 years ago. 
@EvanEsteban2
 
Salamat Evan. I think I have also seen 'kaso lang' used similiar to 'but'. Is that another option or did I misinterpret? I am guessing if it is an option it is less formal.
 
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Author Photo EvanEsteban2
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 5 years ago. 
@rambo2fit
 
"Kaso lang" means however. Literally it translates to "The only case/issue is/was".
 
"Maganda sana yun apartment, kaso lang, mahal ang renta."
 
Also, note that there's another word for "ngunit": "subalit". I think the latter is more formal between the 2.
 
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Author Photo Tagamanila Badge: SupporterBadge: Serious SupporterBadge: VIP SupporterBadge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 5 years ago. 
@rambo2fit
 
"Ngunit" (sometimes spelled as "nguni't") is the most common Tagalog word for "but". In standard Tagalog writing and in formal or strictly-Tagalog conversations, it is the one used. You may also encounter "subalit" and "datapwa't" at times, but I think these are more popular in other Tagalog regions.
 
"Pero" is Spanish, but it is the one we use in ordinary conversations and informal writing.
 
The reason why "kaso lang" seemed to you like another way we say "but" is because the original phrase is really "ang kaso lang" or "pero ang kaso lang". That is how the English expression, "the thing is" or "but the thing is", is said in Tagalog. If you will try to say "ang kaso lang" fast, the sound of "ang" would hardly be heard because of the naturally more prominent sound of the "ka" in "kaso". It is possible that some of us may just say it as "kaso lang", but that's because we know that the complete expression is really what is meant.
 
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Author Photo EvanEsteban2
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 5 years ago. 
Just to add, there's also "bagamat" (though).
 
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Author Photo rambo2fit
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 5 years ago. 
Ahh thank you everyone. I am going to practice using ngunit more and using pero less.
 
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Author Photo Tagamanila Badge: SupporterBadge: Serious SupporterBadge: VIP SupporterBadge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 5 years ago. 
A clarification on my earlier comment:
 
You may have noticed that "ang kaso lang" has the word "lang" (only) in it, but it did not become part of the translation, "the thing is". Sorry, but that was an oversight on my part. The accurate translation should have been "the ONLY thing is". Therefore, "the thing is" in Tagalog should only be "ang kaso" and we do say it just that way too.
 
Examples:
 
Si Maria ay matalino, pero ang kaso LANG, ayaw niyang mag-aral. = Maria is intelligent, but the ONLY thing is, she doesn't like to study.
 
Si Maria ay matalino, pero ang kaso, ayaw niyang mag-aral. = Maria is intelligent, but the thing is, she doesn't like to study.
 
Both of these examples are proper sentences.
 
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Author Photo rambo2fit
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 5 years ago. 
@Tagamanila
 
Salamat! I will try my own sentence. Ang babae ay payat pa, pero ang kaso lang, gustong gusto niyang kumain.
 
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Author Photo EvanEsteban2
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 5 years ago. 
@rambo2fit
 
If you are trying to say "The girl is still skinny/thin despite her big appetite" I would say "Ang babae ay payat pa rin bagamat mahilig siyang kumain". Not a direct translation but will convey the same message.
 
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Author Photo Tagamanila Badge: SupporterBadge: Serious SupporterBadge: VIP SupporterBadge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 5 years ago. 
@rambo2fit
 
Your sentence, "Ang babae ay payat pa, pero ang kaso lang, gustong gusto niyang kumain." That translates to, "The woman is still skinny, but the only thing is, she loves to eat."
 
Would you have wanted to say these instead?
 
- Ang babae ay mataba na, pero ang kaso lang, gustong-gusto pa rin niyang kumain. = The woman is already fat, but the only thing is, she still loves to eat.
 
- Ang babae ay payat pa, pero ang kaso lang, ayaw na ayaw na niyang kumain. = The woman is still skinny, but the only thing is, she already strongly dislikes eating.
 
- Ang babae ay payat kahit na gustong-gusto niyang kumain. = The woman is skinny even if she loves to eat.
 
EvanEsteban2 gave another option.
 
In the first 2 sentences I gave, if we are to replace "pero ang kaso lang" with "pero and kaso" or "ang kaso lang" or "kaso lang" or "ang kaso", the meaning of the sentences would still remain the same. Expressing those 2 sentences in English, "but the thing is" would have been sufficient, i.e., no need for "only" (lang). However, in Tagalog, we may have the tendency to add the "lang", but as I said, any which way we say that phrase, to us the meaning does not really change.
 
Extra note: You might have noticed in my 1st example that "...gustong-gusto PA RIN niyang kumain" translated to "... she STILL loves to eat". However, you might have learned before that "gustong-gusto PA niyang kumain" would also translate to "she STILL loves to eat." Here's the difference: with "rin", we add a sense of continuity to the meaning of "still", i.e., the woman loves to eat, not only now, but even before. Without the "rin", it would sound more like we are only talking about her desire to eat a lot more at this moment.
 
Examples:
Q: Tulog pa ba si John? = Is John still asleep?
A1: Oo, tulog pa siya= Yes, he's still asleep.
A2: Oo, tulog pa rin siya. = Yes, he's still asleep yet.
 
Q: Kumain ka na? = Have you eaten?
A1: Hindi pa = Not yet
A2: Hindi pa rin = Still not yet.
 
The A2 answers, with "rin", suggest that it's not the first time the same answer is being given.
 
I could have translated "... gustong-gusto pa rin niyang kumain" to "yet still she loves to eat", but by doing so, the phrase "but the only thing is" will no longer be needed.
 
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Author Photo Jomacron
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 5 years ago. 
This is a good discussion..guys. just a comment. In translating any language its better to be mindful of the CONTEXT of the conversation before jumping in to the literal translation. That's when the Filipino grammar and slang comes into play. The word pero, ngunit,subalit, datapwat, kahit bagamat, kahit na, etc have their place in formal speech and street talk conversation and in writing too. In regular and casual conversation response, the rules of the Filipino grammar does NOT come into play similar to yeah! uhuh!, sure! Ofcourse, why not?, where CONTEXT come more into play and LITERAL translation would sound awkward.
 
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Author Photo EvanEsteban2
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 5 years ago. 
@Jomacron
 
You are generally right but if you think about it, visitors of this site can be categorized into: basic learners and skilled teachers. Similar to what has been pointed out in a different topic, the teacher should try to preserve the structure of the sentences without losing the essence or goal of translating every word within. The translation may sound awkward but it would be less confusing for beginners. Thanks.
 
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Author Photo rambo2fit
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 5 years ago. 
rambo2fit Your sentence, "Ang babae ay payat pa, pero ang kaso lang, gustong gusto niyang kumain." That translates to, "The woman is still skinny, but the only thing is, she loves to eat."
 
@Tagamanila
 
Yes this is what I am trying to say I want to use pero ang kaso lang in a sentence. I love all the examples provided also. It gives me more to inquire about and investigate.
Maraming salamat!
 
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Author Photo Jomacron
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 5 years ago. 
@EvanEsteban2
 
I've been recently promoting this site in FB here in Florida US for non Filipinos and teen FilAms who don't speak Tagalog. Most of the general questions they ask me is in the CONTEXTUAL response to a tagalog question. They keep telling me they dont want to be awkward in their response. They are not trying to learn tagalog academically by diving into the grammar and literal translation of each word (although i ended up telling them the proper tagalog grammar) That's the feedback I got from them and I just posted it here coincidentally because we had so much fun talking about NGUNIT, SUBALIT, DATAPWAT, PERO, we didn't even come up with KASO LANG though. That 's why I love this thread in particular...a very informative discussion with people like you sharing your ideas.
 
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Author Photo rambo2fit
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 5 years ago. 
@Jomacron
 
Yes I understand your students but they must be willing to be embarrassed sometimes especially if they do not want to learn the grammar. The good thing is most Filipino's are very appreciative of the effort even if we are wrong.
 
I agree also each discussion has so much information to take away from it and some many lessons we can learn. There is already such a wealth of knowledge here.
 
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