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Question: Usage of kailangan (NG or ANG ?)

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Author Photo by: shin23
Mar 30 2024, 9:35pm CST ~ 7 mos. ago. 
Question: Usage of kailangan (NG or ANG ?)
 
Are the sentences bellow correct(〇), understandable(â–³), or incorrect(Ã-) ?
 
(1) Kailangang kumain ni Anna.
(2) Kailangang kumain si Anna.
(meaning: Anna has to eat)
 
[supplement]
I thought both are correct, but seems (2) is not so correct, or just incorrect?
Although Learning Tagalog shows both usage.
learningtagalog.com/ grammar/verbs/pseudo verbs/using_pseudove rbs.html
- Ayaw, gusto, kaya, kailangan + basic form (using NG)
- Kailangan, dapat, pwede + verb/ noun/ etc. (using ANG)
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Author Photo DenC Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Mar 31 2024, 3:17am CST ~ 7 mos. ago. 
Both are correct but differ in nuance. Imo, down below are the uses but you might see them being interchanged especially in cases like this.
 
1) Can be broken down to "Kailangan na na kumain ni Anna." -> "Kailangan nang kumain ni Anna." -> " Kailangang kumain ni Anna." = Anna has/needs to eat (now/already). This is in the "ang" form because "ni" is used.
 
2) "Kailangan na kumain si Anna." -> "Kailangang kumain si Anna." -> Anna has/needs to eat. (in general). This is in the "ng" form based on "si".
 
Reference: languagecrush.com/bo ok/3/207/chapter
 
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Author Photo shin23
Mar 31 2024, 4:29am CST ~ 7 mos. ago. 
@DenC Thanks for the answer.
 
> Both are correct but differ in nuance
I got it (a bit difficult for me at now about the nuance, though)
 
I am not sure about this parts.
>This is in the "ang" form because "ni" is used.
>This is in the "ng" form based on "si".
This is opposite?
 
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Author Photo shin23
Mar 31 2024, 4:39am CST ~ 7 mos. ago. 
And, "kanlangan + verb + NG doer" is much more common than "kailangan + verb + ANG doer" ?
 
As searching TDC Corpus:
 
"kailangan siyang" -> only 15 matches (also some of them are "may" sentence)
www.tagalog.com/exam plefinder/?keyword=k ailangan+siyang&incl ude_ligature=1&
 
"kailangan niyang" -> 252 mataches
www.tagalog.com/exam plefinder/?keyword=k ailangan+niyang&incl ude_ligature=1&
 
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Author Photo Juantutri Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Apr 03 2024, 3:37am CST ~ 7 mos. ago. 
Sentence 2 is correct. Based on how you stated it, Sentence 1 is also correct.
 
Sentence 2 - "Kailangang kumain si Ana" = "Si Ana ay kailangang kumain" = "Kailangang si Ana ay kumain" = Ana need/has to eat. The 3 sentences are all grammatically correct. If we are going to move the "na" from after "kailangan na/kailangang" to after "Ana" - Kailangan SI Ana na/Anang kumain - it should instead be "Kailangan NI AnaNG kumain", which is what Sentence 1 is.
 
Sentence 1, however, is only correct if it is stated the way you did, i.e., the sentence starts with the verb. The "na" linker is needed in "kailangan na/kailangang kumain" because it functions like the "to" that links the verbs "need" and "eat" to form the phrase "need to eat".
 
The main verb of the sentence is "kailangan". Usually, the actor of the verb should follow it immediately. Hence, we would more often state that the sentence as "Kailangan ni AnaNG/Ana NA kumain - the "na" attaches to Ana instead. (This is what I meant at the end of my comment re Sentence 2 above).
 
The problem with the sentence "Kailangan ni Ana NA kumain" will appear if we are going to state it in the subject-predicate form where we need the "ay" as their partition. What appears on either side of NA may serve as the subject or the predicate.
 
Ang kailangan ni Ana AY kumain (What Ana needs is to eat).
 
Ang kumain AY ang kailangan ni Ana (Eating is what Ana needs). - "Kumain (to eat)" becomes the gerund "eating".
 
Notice that in both sentences, the "na" is no longer used because the phrase "kailangan na kumain" is no longer there. That is why I mentioned above that your Sentence 1 is only "correct" in that form, i.e., when the two verbs have to go together and be linked with a "na".
 
I am not clear about what you are referring to by "usage of kailangan (NG or ANG?)" If what you meant was about the change of "ng" to "ang" when the actor becomes the subject of the sentence, then that would only apply to Sentence 2. If we'd replace "si Ana" with a common noun, "Kailangang kumain si Ana" becomes, for example,:
 
Kailangang kumain NG babae. = ANG babae ay kailangang kumain.
 
You also mentioned that you found fewer cases of "kailangan siyang". That's because when "siya" is the actor of two linked verbs, we would normally use "niya"; or we use "siya" when "siya" is the object of the verb.
 
In the first four citations under "kailangan siyang":
1. "... kailangan siyang manood ng ads..." - I believe that most of us would say this as "kailangan NIYANG manood ng ads... (he/she needs to watch ads)"
 
2. "... or may kailangan siyang bitbitin... (or there is something that he must carry with him)" - The "may" before "kailangan" requires that "siya" is used. We don't say "may kailangan kong/mong/niyang/nating/ninyong/etc. + verb". What we say is "may kailangan akong/kang/SIYANG/tayong/kayong/etc. + verb".
 
3. "... Kailangan siyang mag-trabaho, anak." - Again, I think that most of us would use "niyang" instead of "siyang" here. Also, in the absence of context, to use "siyang" may suggest that someone needs to work instead of doing nothing; while using "niyang" is normally understood as the need to earn a living as the head of the family.
 
4. "... Kailangan siyang mailigtas sa Hawaii... (He/She needs to be rescued in Hawaii)" - "Siya" is the object of the verb, the actor would be the rescuer.
 
There are more of the "kailangan niyang" because, as I mentioned above, the actor of the verb "kailangan" usually follows it immediately, i.e., the actor comes before the second verb.

If you search only for "kailangang", you will see that in the majority of the citations, the second verb comes right after it. And if you'd place the actor pronoun between the 2 verbs, they'd be "kailangan kong/mong/NIYANG/naming/etc." followed by the second verb. That's why "kailangan niyang" is more common.
 
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Author Photo shin23
Apr 03 2024, 10:40pm CST ~ 7 mos. ago. 
@Juantutri Thank you for the detailed answer.
 
I understand as follows:
Both 2 sentences are correct, and can be written in these way.
 
(1) Kailangang kumain ni Anna.
= Kailangan ni Anna na(Annang) kumain.
 
(2) Kailangang kumain si Anna
= Anna ay kailangang kumain.
= Kailangan si Anna ay kumain.
 
(c.f. Kailangang kumain NG babae. = ANG babae ay kailangang kumain.)
 
Also thank you too for explanation about the cases of "kailangan siyang." etc.
 
> I am not clear about what you are referring to by "usage of kailangan (NG or ANG?)
 
I wonder that some sudo-verbs can be used only with "NG" or "ANG", but seems kailangan can be used with both "NG" and "ANG" (as a doer).
 
(A) _ _ _ _ na kumain ni Anna.
(B) _ _ _ _ na kumain si Anna.
 
The blank can be filled with...
(A) gusto / ayaw / kaya / kailangan
(B) dapat / puwede / kailangan
 
for example,
"gusto" can only be used with NG
(3) Gustong kumain ni Anna. (〇 OK)
(4) Gustong kumain si Anna. (Ã- Not Correct)
 
"puwede" can be only used with ANG (of course, can be used with NG if the verb is object focus)
(5) Puwedeng kumain ni Anna. (Ã- Not Correct)
(6) Puwedeng kumain si Anna. (〇 OK)
((7)Puwedeng kainin ni Anna ang tinapay. (〇OK))
 
Then, kailangan can be used with both NG and ANG.
(1) Kailangang kumain ni Anna.
(2) Kailangang kumain si Anna.
 
so, I feel that the usage of kailangan is a bit more complicated from other psudo-verbs.
 
Thank you very much.
 
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Author Photo Juantutri Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Apr 04 2024, 9:30am CST ~ 7 mos. ago. 
@shin23
Sorry about using "Ana" instead of "Anna" in my comments above.
 
Please look again at my comment above about this:
>> (2) Kailangang kumain si Anna
>> = Anna ay kailangang kumain.
>> = Kailangan si Anna ay kumain.
They should be:
SI Anna ay kailangang kumain.
KailanganG si Anna ay kumain.
 
About this:
>> I wonder that some sudo-verbs can be used only with "NG" or "ANG", but seems kailangan can be used with both "NG" and "ANG" (as a doer).
>> (A) _ _ _ _ na kumain ni Anna.
>> (B) _ _ _ _ na kumain si Anna.
 
(B) KAILANGAN na kumain si Anna.
 
For (A), however, as I mentioned earlier, only "KAILANGANG KUMAIN ni Anna" is correct, i.e., the "na" has to be attached to "kailangan". Once you detach the "na" from the end of "kailangang", you must place "ni Anna" between the two verbs and attach the "na" to the end of "Anna" - KAILANGAN NI ANNA NA/ANNANG kumain - to retain the meaning of the sentence.

"Kailangan NA kumain ni Anna" does not sound right anymore. Maybe that's the reason why "DenC" came up in her response with:
 
>> "Kailangan na na kumain ni Anna." -> "Kailangan nang kumain ni Anna." -> "
>> Kailangang kumain ni Anna." = Anna has/needs to eat (now/already).
 
I think that "DenC" ended up with "kailangan NA NA ..." because of the detached "na". The first "na" goes with or attaches to "kailangan" and the second "na" gets interpreted as "already".
 
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Author Photo shin23
Apr 04 2024, 10:24pm CST ~ 7 mos. ago. 
@Juantutri Thank you for the answers.
 
>>> = Kailangan si Anna ay kumain.
> They should be:
> SI Anna ay kailangang kumain.
> KailanganG si Anna ay kumain.
I see.
 
>"Kailangan NA kumain ni Anna" does not sound right anymore.
Oh, na is NOT same as -ng in this case.
Should be "kailangang kumain ni Anna" or "kailangan ni Anna na (Annang) kumain."
 
Back to the nuance mentioned by DenC.
"(1) Kailangang kumain ni Anna." (≒ Kailangan na na kumain ni Anna.) is like about Anna's current state.
Maybe Anna is now just hungry, so she need to eat.
 
As for "(2)Kailangang kumain si Anna.", it is about general condition.
Maybe Anna is in sick and need to eat.
 
Thank you very much.
 
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Author Photo Juantutri Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Apr 04 2024, 11:46pm CST ~ 7 mos. ago. 
@shin23
 
Oh, na is NOT same as -ng in this case.

It is not a different "na", except that in this case it should not be detached from "kailangan" as it might be misunderstood to mean "already" instead.
 
Provided that "KailangaNG kumain NI Anna" and/or "Kailangan NI AnnaNG kumain" are stated that way, they mean the same thing as "Kailangang kumain SI Anna" or "Anna needs to eat". But if you will detach "na" from "Kailangan NA kumain NI Anna", it is possible that it might be understood as "Anna already needs to eat".
 
KailangaNG kumain NI Anna/Kailangan NI AnnaNG kumain/KailangaNG kumain SI Anna. = Anna has/needs to eat. - Because she has not eaten for a long time/because she is malnourished/to help her recover from her illness/because she is bulemic/because she has already lost so much weight/etc.
 
Kailangan NANG/NA NA kumain ni Anna. = Anna has/needs to eat ALREADY. - Because she must already be hungry/because she has not eaten yet since this morning/because it is past her feeding time/etc.
 
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Author Photo shin23
Apr 05 2024, 4:32am CST ~ 7 mos. ago. 
@Juantutri Thank you for the explanation about the na and the difference of the nuance.
 
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