An LGBTQ+ Catholic and A Straight Catholic Meet and Talk | Filipino | Rec•Create
00:34.8
I would say I have a pretty strong relationship with God.
00:38.3
I think that my SOGI affected my religion to the point wherein I am now a non-practicing Catholic.
00:44.7
Just because you're not practicing religion doesn't mean that you've lost your faith.
00:48.3
I have my own understanding of how God interacts in my life.
00:54.0
Growing up, I came from a Catholic school.
00:57.2
And I go to Mass every day.
00:59.2
So it's basically all I know.
01:01.2
I've been technically finding God in all things.
01:04.2
And instead of finding God in prayer, sometimes I find Him in just sheer silence.
01:09.2
Sometimes I just find Him in whenever I see good happening.
01:14.2
The biggest thing I think is how they're able to reconcile their own experience,
01:20.2
like their own personal experience, their truth, with what the Catholic Church teaches and believes in.
01:27.2
I'm already kind of curious to see how much evolution has happened in terms of how a practicing traditional Catholic would think.
01:34.2
So I guess it's like a litmus paper of how far we've come or how still backwards we are.
01:50.2
I think an assumption because of how the gays are portrayed in the media, like flamboyant.
01:56.2
You guys are progressive.
01:57.2
We're very liberal thinkers.
01:59.2
I would think that most, if not all, are not religious.
02:05.2
And then another one I think is if you're not like super happy, like flamboyant,
02:11.2
like deep down there's maybe underlying anxiety or depression.
02:17.2
That's an assumption.
02:18.2
That's an assumption.
02:19.2
Sometimes that's true.
02:21.2
Number one, I've kind of noticed that like they can't really—
02:25.2
They can't really move on even if that a point that they've raised has been addressed.
02:32.2
It's like they're always sticking to their guns even if we've already beaten that gun.
02:37.2
The second assumption would be like they usually quote slash misquote the Bible a lot.
02:47.2
This is not more of an assumption but like more of an observation.
02:50.2
It's like to some extent they're like surrendering everything.
02:54.2
Both good and bad to the point where they forget to credit themselves.
02:59.2
I don't think they realize that technically we're all in the same side.
03:05.2
I think they don't really recognize that like the actual division is not because of what is perceived to be sinful or not.
03:14.2
But it's actually because of how old people and historical people chose to view it through their eyes during their time.
03:24.2
Never have I ever disagreed with a priest's homily.
03:32.2
I have never disagreed.
03:35.2
Ok. Never have I ever felt Catholic guilt while doing a sexual act?
03:42.2
Have you ever thought of like Jesus while doing it?
03:47.8
What? Oh, I have!
03:49.2
Shit. it's so weird!
03:52.2
I always think that
03:53.2
Like, what is he, like, what is my guardian angel saying right now?
03:58.1
Never have I ever not paid attention in religion class or any of those.
04:04.2
Ikaw, nagpa-pay attention ka?
04:05.8
Yeah, it's one of my highest subjects.
04:08.0
It was one of my highest subjects.
04:11.3
I thought you were non-practicing.
04:15.0
Never have I ever explored another religion.
04:20.5
Yeah, um, what was the thing with the yin and yang?
04:24.4
That's the religion with the yin and yang symbol.
04:26.6
I just basically, like, highly related to the concept of balance.
04:37.3
I'm going to choose from one of your photos.
04:45.6
One of the hot topics then was, like,
04:49.1
then President Duterte's approval of
04:52.3
of Marcos Sr. being
04:54.3
being buried in the libingan ng mga bayani.
04:57.1
So, I've evolved to the point wherein
04:59.8
I just call out when I see bullshit.
05:03.0
This was bullshit.
05:06.1
I guess, like, this pretty much stood out.
05:09.5
Because, like, it stood out to me because it felt like
05:12.2
the most freeing and calming.
05:17.6
interesting you chose this because this is a photo that
05:20.5
I was supposed to post on YouTube.
05:21.8
I was supposed to post on my Finsta, but I accidentally posted
05:24.6
on my main Instagram, so that's cool.
05:29.8
I mean, wala, there's really not much to say about it
05:32.1
except that it's, like, the wackier side of me, maybe.
05:40.1
When did you realize your gender identity
05:45.1
and how did you know for certain?
05:47.3
I fully realized it when I was already in grade 6.
05:51.6
There was this one moment wherein I made my classmate's name my password.
05:55.1
I didn't realize it when I set that password,
05:58.4
but now, looking back at it, I was like,
06:00.0
alright, I was probably attracted to my seatmate.
06:04.8
What parts of the Bible do you think are being used out of context a lot?
06:10.8
And which ones do you believe are accurate?
06:17.5
Okay, to be honest, even if I claim that I'm, like, super Catholic,
06:21.6
I'm not sure if there's anything that I can quote from memory
06:25.1
that is heavily used that is misinterpreted and all of that.
06:30.1
But a lot of interpretations of the Scripture, of text, are outdated.
06:37.1
So, I'm with you on that when you say na, you know,
06:41.1
a lot of it can be misquoted and misconstrued.
06:44.6
You also asked if there's something I know for certain is, like, yun talaga.
06:49.6
Like, yun talaga yung essence of the Catholic.
06:53.1
It's, one, you should love your Lord with all your heart,
06:57.1
with all your soul, with all your mind.
06:59.1
And then the second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself.
07:04.1
So, I feel like that is the essence of Catholic teaching.
07:10.1
It's just to love the Lord, love everyone else, love your neighbor.
07:15.1
My next question is,
07:17.1
how do you reconcile your experiences,
07:21.6
your personal experiences and your gender identity,
07:25.6
your experiences with, like, your sexual orientation,
07:28.6
your sexual orientation,
07:30.1
with the teachings of the Catholic Church with regards to the topic?
07:35.1
Interestingly enough, there was one core college class
07:39.1
and one of the topics there were marriage, masturbation,
07:43.1
sexual relations, and homosexuality.
07:46.1
And, like, what were the church stances there.
07:48.6
I remember that there were four,
07:50.6
four considerations.
07:51.6
Only one was actually pretty homophobic.
07:54.6
If three out of four interpretations,
07:57.6
or three out of four schools of thought are accepting of being gay,
08:01.6
then, like, why is it that, like, other people always default to the first one, right?
08:07.6
And then after that, I actually began to do some research.
08:11.6
And then, like, where in the Bible did Jesus or God say gays would go to hell?
08:17.6
Apparently, there wasn't.
08:18.6
Nowhere. Nowhere, right?
08:19.6
I also tried to search it.
08:20.6
I also tried to search.
08:22.6
Apparently, there wasn't.
08:23.6
I was able to reconcile it because
08:25.6
I factually knew that there was nothing in the Bible that goes against us.
08:31.6
As far as faith and Jesus are concerned,
08:34.6
they're on my side.
08:36.6
And apparently, we're all on the same side.
08:38.6
We're supposed to be on the same side.
08:40.6
So, who is against us?
08:42.6
Eventually, it's just people.
08:44.6
Since we've experienced three popes,
08:46.6
when Pope Francis came along,
08:48.6
there was, like, a sudden change.
08:51.6
How has your thinking evolved as these popes change?
08:54.6
Because, of course, as popes change, church stances changes.
08:58.6
I think, like, right now, there's a lot of controversy on Pope Francis
09:02.6
because he has been very vocal about blessing gays.
09:07.6
He's always saying that the orientation is not a crime.
09:12.6
You know, within the church, they're all like,
09:14.6
No, that's wrong.
09:15.6
But that's the pope.
09:16.6
So, that's the thing.
09:18.6
And so, you know, whenever I thought of something
09:21.6
that maybe I didn't understand,
09:23.6
I would always call it out.
09:24.6
Like, if there's acceptance, if it's about love and acceptance,
09:27.6
why is same-sex marriage not allowed?
09:30.6
Like, why is it a sin to love and all of that things?
09:33.6
And my dad, I think he was able to explain it to me
09:37.6
in a way that I was able to digest.
09:40.6
Because he said that the Catholic Church recognizes
09:46.6
that there's a difference between the sexual, like, the orientation,
09:51.6
the sexual orientation and the sexual act.
09:54.6
Everyone is, like, accepted, right?
09:57.6
Everyone is loved by God.
09:59.6
But then there's also, like, there are also these parameters
10:03.6
that would, like, would count your actions as sin.
10:07.6
Like, the homosexual act, basically, of, like,
10:10.6
man and man, woman and woman,
10:12.6
goes against the natural law.
10:14.6
That's why, also,
10:15.6
in the same light, premarital sex is also considered a sin.
10:19.6
Yeah, whether you're hetero or woman.
10:21.6
Yeah, whether or not you're, right?
10:23.6
Because, like, it's also going against the possibility of procreation.
10:29.6
So that's where the line is drawn.
10:31.6
If the rules are the same, then, you know,
10:33.6
that's how I understood that, like,
10:35.6
oh, okay, it's not that the gays are wrong,
10:38.6
it's just the act, right?
10:40.6
That's why, like, it's going against the natural law
10:42.6
because it has nothing to do with, like, Scripture,
10:46.6
na sinasabi ni Lord, na bawal man and man.
10:48.6
It's just, yun lang.
10:49.6
It just goes against the procreation.
10:52.6
So, it's essentially the concern of the act, right?
10:55.6
However, like, I think that we can all agree
10:58.6
that, like, in terms of the actual human experience,
11:01.6
the act of sex is always coming from the feeling
11:05.6
or the sense of love.
11:07.6
How do you think can it be reconciled that, like,
11:11.6
while gay people are allowed to love each other,
11:14.6
why can't they express their love the same way
11:17.6
as heterosexuals are allowed to do?
11:22.6
I think kasi in the whole context of, like,
11:27.6
the Church teaching, sex is a sacred thing.
11:32.6
It should be, it's like a gift from God
11:35.6
and it should really just be shared
11:37.6
between, like, man and woman in marriage.
11:40.6
So, even if you're not married,
11:43.6
it's really talagang wrong
11:45.6
because, nga, the ultimate thing is procreation talaga.
11:48.6
For me personally, like, even if, you know,
11:52.6
even if I want to say na I don't believe in it
11:55.6
and I don't agree,
11:56.6
I still think that it's for good cause
11:59.6
and it's for good reason because I think
12:01.6
a lot of the teachings of the Church,
12:04.6
they're not really meant to put boundaries
12:07.6
or to restrict you.
12:08.6
They're actually meant to free you.
12:10.6
I think, nga, it's not different, eh,
12:12.6
when it comes to homosexual, heterosexual.
12:14.6
If it's not in, within the confines of marriage
12:17.6
and with a purpose, sole purpose of procreation,
12:21.6
then it's, I think it's wrong.
12:25.6
So, in your view, how do you,
12:27.6
what role does the Catholic Church play
12:30.6
in supporting LGBTQIA plus individuals?
12:35.6
And do you see opportunities for improvement
12:39.6
and how can we give you a more welcoming
12:41.6
and safe environment?
12:45.6
I really do think that, like,
12:47.6
there's essentially a disconnect
12:49.6
between the Catholic Church
12:51.6
and the LGBTQIA plus community.
12:53.6
We need to feel like we're still included
12:56.6
without any prejudice.
12:57.6
We're still, like, we're still human.
13:00.6
We need to feel that sense of community again.
13:02.6
Like, we still need to feel that, like,
13:04.6
we can still do the things that everyone can do.
13:09.6
Always remember na, like,
13:10.6
what's the more loving thing to do?
13:13.6
We try to defend based on logic,
13:17.6
But we pretty much forget what it feels like na,
13:20.6
what is the more loving option?
13:22.6
And, like, to that effect,
13:24.6
one of the effects of the miscommunication
13:27.6
is, like, we feel like we're being excluded.
13:30.6
We feel like we do not belong anymore
13:32.6
in the Catholic Church just because of that.
13:34.6
How have you felt that?
13:35.6
In your experience,
13:36.6
how have you felt excluded from the Catholic Church?
13:39.6
Whenever I would go to the retreat
13:43.6
or, like, undergo one of the sacraments,
13:46.6
I've gotten the thought of,
13:48.6
what's the point of me doing this
13:50.6
if I know I'm not wrong?
13:52.6
It doesn't feel wrong.
13:54.6
It feels genuine.
13:58.6
And that's where I feel God.
14:00.6
And so, like, to some extent,
14:01.6
a byproduct of this miscommunication is
14:04.6
straight Catholics experience God
14:06.6
in their usual way.
14:08.6
Even the LGBTQIA plus Catholics
14:11.6
experience God in their own way.
14:13.6
Do you know the drag queen Pura Loque Vega?
14:17.6
I'm not sure what the pronouns they're using,
14:19.6
so I'll just use datum.
14:20.6
Sorry if I am misgendering.
14:23.6
They were just arrested
14:24.6
because of dressing up as Jesus Christ.
14:26.6
And, like, it's basically like a singing Jesus.
14:28.6
How is that different from your usual...
14:31.6
Na-charismatic na parang,
14:32.6
rock songs na Catholic Church.
14:36.6
Like, you know how in music, like,
14:39.6
That is an LGBTQIA plus person
14:44.6
expressing their own religious take on it.
14:48.6
And that's where they feel the connection.
14:51.6
Many gays actually felt like
14:54.6
their connection to God was restored because of that.
14:59.6
Oh, He exists here too.
15:02.6
So, like, it all boils down to
15:04.6
are we still doing acts of mercy?
15:06.6
Are we still doing everything with good intentions?
15:09.6
Are we choosing the more loving option?
15:12.6
Because in the end,
15:13.6
that's what we're gonna be judged for.
15:15.6
I feel like a reason why we both resonate with each other
15:19.6
and we both agree on certain things,
15:22.6
actually a lot of things,
15:23.6
is because, like,
15:25.6
I also believe that your understanding of Catholic teachings
15:30.6
It can't be black and white.
15:32.6
It's really, for me, ultimately, like,
15:34.6
are you being your mother?
15:35.6
Are you being your most loving self?
15:37.6
Are you choosing to glorify God
15:39.6
or, like, whatever you believe in the universe?
15:41.6
Even if we're gonna be marketed as opposites,
15:45.6
for lack of a better term,
15:47.6
essentially, we're all on the same side.
15:49.6
We're all the same.
15:51.6
We're all the same.
15:52.6
Yeah, because, like,
15:53.6
who wouldn't want to be on the side of love?
15:55.6
Love is the phenomenon between two people
15:57.6
who admire and respect each other
15:59.6
and will do everything in their power
16:01.6
to become better versions of themselves
16:04.6
and help each other become better versions
16:07.6
of each other as well.
16:09.6
This experience was,
16:11.6
it pretty much asserted
16:13.6
what I believe to be true.
16:16.6
Really coming into this,
16:17.6
I was more curious than
16:19.6
I felt like I had something to say.
16:21.6
It's good because we were able to assert that
16:24.6
there's essentially supposed to be no division at all.
16:29.6
This division is ultimately just man-made.
16:31.6
It's not something from God.
16:33.6
The Catholic Church really should do better.
16:37.6
There's very few people like me
16:40.6
who are, like, really actively spreading the message
16:43.6
of love and acceptance and understanding.
16:46.6
We're literally all on the same side.
16:48.6
So, you guys have to treat your neighbors
16:50.6
with a default amount of love and respect.
16:53.6
Love God with everything.
16:55.6
Love your neighbor as yourself.
16:57.6
Those are the two things, guys.
16:59.6
The moment you choose not to love,
17:01.6
that's when you need to question yourself.
17:03.6
Homosexuality is not a sin.
17:05.6
It's inhospitability.
