00:19.8
seen for a long time it's been a while
00:22.6
um admiral romal onong Kamusta po kayo
00:25.7
diyan over the past 21 hours Oo ngao
00:30.0
Long time no see Long time no see
00:32.8
admiral Yeah I mean of course one of the
00:35.4
greatest um pleasures of this podcast
00:38.8
that I I built over the past two years
00:41.4
since election 2022 is creating a sense
00:43.4
of community and nung isang araw doon sa
00:45.8
ating utak forum Just to be clear hindi
00:48.2
tayo nagpaparinig na walang ano yyung
00:49.8
kabila ito yyung usapan tough at
00:52.0
Katipunan um you know I mean na-feel ko
00:54.7
yyung sense of community natin admiral
00:57.0
Did you Did you feel our sense of
00:58.6
community admiral
01:04.2
ah not question it's not
01:14.3
e wala naman ako access do sa chat room
01:17.8
So parang hindi ko nakikita
01:22.3
AUD the audience are still Quiet and
01:24.7
waiting ad I was I was wondering Of
01:26.8
course you secretary justice Scorpio
01:31.2
have been in conversation for qu it was
01:33.2
good to have all of us under one roof
01:35.1
all the very small room tight room Mas
01:37.6
marami pa Iyung media kaya kaya space
01:40.0
doon No It Was it was crazy it was crazy
01:42.3
it was full now admiral obviously you
01:44.3
know speaking of friendship we can talk
01:45.7
about a lots lots of friendship and or
01:47.9
not so friendship sa sa West Philippines
01:50.6
ad have you followed Iyung latest
01:52.2
hearing in um sa sa Senate Meron palang
01:55.9
libro si Sarah Duterte self authored
01:58.7
Hindi ko na alam kung dumaan sa sa PE
02:00.2
review to isang kaibigan ang ang ang
02:02.6
title yata yung mga balahurang tao
02:05.8
ginawa nilang isang kaibigan tapos yung
02:07.6
parot Kiboy sabi ni kaibigan ni Kiboy
02:10.6
sabi nung kabilang owl kaibigan niya ng
02:12.9
China meron pang version yung gagastos
02:16.1
kas sa 11 days ng ganon Grabe talaga
02:18.7
guys don't be like that admiral speaking
02:21.6
of friendship um wait lang Hindi ba
02:25.4
strange for Duterte especially Sarah you
02:28.3
know Sarah Duterte to talk about
02:30.6
friendship I mean have you heard
02:32.0
something about this admiral na may
02:35.8
ganyan medyo ano eh Medyo off yung
02:40.9
sit to say the least no say the least to
02:44.2
say the least parang ang bilis pala
02:46.1
maging best selling author kailangan mo
02:48.0
lang magde pala e magde secretary ka
02:50.6
pwede na tayong lahat mag-best selling
02:52.2
oror akalin mo yung budget daw 101
02:55.3
million Sarap buhay Sarap buhay talaga
02:58.4
Author na ngayon author um justice Ay
03:02.0
ayan na naman tayo justice carp
03:04.3
matatanggal tang nak Once
03:09.0
na bast Kaibigan tayo kaibigan ako ni
03:12.7
Jose sc kaibigan ako ni admiral Ong
03:15.0
admiral admiral ito it ito pag-usapan
03:17.7
natin Uh um obviously um latest in the
03:20.9
West Philippines se Uh itong
03:22.6
nakakabahala ng developments nakita
03:24.9
natin sa Sabina shol at of course yung
03:27.3
Direction ng bilat relationships natin p
03:30.0
the reason I ask about Duterte and all
03:31.7
of that because during that hearing Ayan
03:33.2
serious na tayo admiral during that
03:35.3
hearing um Sarah Duterte had this weir
03:38.0
tangential thing na ito si Risa
03:40.6
binabanatan kami mga Duterte doon sa
03:42.6
speech niya sa akb wow stalker di ba
03:44.8
naano kami ng China ganon um I mean
03:48.6
admiral do you think ano um the Chinese
03:51.5
see the dutertes as their friends
03:54.0
speaking of isang kaibigan So tingin mo
03:56.1
ba sila bang isang kaibigan ng China sa
04:01.4
Well I think Uh looking back ung
04:04.2
previous administration Uh that would
04:06.3
fit the description kaibigan talaga
04:11.7
yeah Sige you're free not to self
04:15.6
incriminate and let me take the punches
04:18.0
and all of that Pinapainit natin kasi
04:20.0
alam mo nam admiral Di ba pag sa klase
04:22.0
minsan maaga ka mag-start paparating
04:24.0
lang yung mga estudyante so pumapasok pa
04:26.0
lang yung mga estudyante ito yung warm
04:27.4
up lang ng pre lecture Uh discuss natin
04:30.4
admiral I mean going back to this the
04:32.8
reason I rais that also is because doun
04:34.8
sa forum natin sa utak pinag-usapan po
04:36.7
natin admiral yung issue ng
04:38.5
misinformation maline influence ah of
04:41.8
course nabubuking na iyung mga ibang
04:43.2
fake journalist ng China na kunyaring
04:45.0
journalist yyun pala iba Iyung ginagawa
04:46.9
so I mean how serious is Uh you know the
04:51.8
presence of openly pro China elements or
04:54.2
not so patriotic elements na tahimik
04:56.6
pagdating sa West Philippines c in terms
04:58.4
of making sure na magkaroon tayo ng
05:00.1
national coherence alignment at saka
05:02.5
effective response doun sa threat na
05:04.6
meron tayo sa West Philippines which
05:05.9
will discuss more as we we move forward
05:08.2
admiral how serious are this friends of
05:10.6
China if I can put It That Way mga isang
05:12.7
kaibigan ng China sa Pilipinas how how
05:15.7
how much of gaano sila kagab sa pagbuo
05:19.2
ng isang United front sa Pilipinas
05:21.1
pagdating sa yung ating laban sa West
05:23.1
Philippines C Well I think mahihirapan
05:26.2
naman tayong magbuo ng 100% everybody is
05:29.2
on the same page as far as West
05:30.8
Philippines is concerned e number one Uh
05:33.8
by the nature of the peace yung politics
05:35.6
natin talaga namang watak-watak tayo may
05:37.4
kan kanyang partido yan e May kany
05:39.5
kanyang interest So if we Aspire for
05:44.5
unified position on the say West
05:47.1
Philippines seat medyo malabo yyun pero
05:49.6
at least we have I think 90 or 91% e
05:52.4
based on iung previous now we have so i
05:55.4
think that's already good na as far as
06:00.1
hindi rin natin maiiwasan na this actors
06:04.6
this political actors within our
06:07.1
community magagamit magagamit yan ng
06:09.7
ating katong galung China
06:12.6
ah it may be the relationship Might Be
06:16.0
ideological Sabi nga ni ano ni ah
06:19.2
secretas It Could Be transactional or It
06:22.0
could be purely a personal perception
06:25.8
personal view nung tao na ano e
06:27.6
naniniwala siya na tama yung kanya ano
06:29.8
ah pananaw sa buhay So that's a matter
06:32.7
of personal opinion hindi mo pwedeng
06:34.5
tanggalin sa kanya So we have to live
06:38.2
with it na divided Iyung country ang ano
06:40.8
na lang dito Iyung metrics natin is how
06:42.9
divided are we So if it's a 91% 9% Iyung
06:46.9
labanan natin I think we can be
06:49.1
comfortable with that ano that
06:50.8
percentage Yeah I mean Just to be clear
06:53.2
of course admiral No one is talking
06:55.3
about like North Korea style unison of
06:57.8
you ' ba I mean What we're talking is
07:00.0
yung minimum yung acceptable kasi For
07:02.6
instance sa US admiral um the democrats
07:05.0
and and and and republicans disagree on
07:07.2
so many things but at least in terms of
07:09.5
the facts of Anong kailangan ng us
07:11.7
pagdating sa kanyang National interest
07:13.9
making sure na walang interference you
07:15.8
know sa sa kanilang elections ganoon
07:18.0
There's a great degree um hindi ko naang
07:20.4
pag-usapan si trump pero There's a great
07:22.4
degree of Let's just call it bipartisan
07:24.4
consensus ' ba ang labanan lang naman
07:26.6
diyan yung tactics Eh syempre democrats
07:28.8
want to go multilateral the republicans
07:31.6
want to go more unilateral but of the
07:33.5
day For instance tanggap nila yyung
07:34.9
China Iyung number one threat ah sa
07:36.7
kanilang global leadership or hegemony
07:38.6
whatever you want to call it so ang ang
07:40.5
ang siguro ang pinag-usapan natin dito
07:42.2
is not now I mean obviously in any
07:44.6
democracy There's a plurality of views
07:46.3
but in terms of yung agreement on the
07:48.2
basic facts of the matter I think
07:49.6
justice carp kept on mentioning that but
07:51.4
dapat align tayo At least doon sa Basic
07:53.2
facts including Siguro naman gusto natin
07:56.0
la you know labanan yung bulling sa West
07:58.1
Philippines Ed ba So a I think that's
07:60.0
the context So So how is maline
08:02.8
influence different from legitimate
08:05.3
pluralistic democratic discourse or
08:10.5
well dito na tayo papasok sa ano eh
08:13.0
yyung larangan ng foreign interference
08:16.3
or Uh foreign maline influence which you
08:18.9
mentioned that means Uh Uh they will Uh
08:22.7
let's say for example China will employ
08:24.6
political actors domestic political
08:26.7
actors as nila for as spreading yung
08:30.1
number one yung narrative nila ah
08:32.7
pangalawa is which is I think we should
08:34.8
worried be worried about is yung
08:37.5
potential disruption niya during our
08:39.8
2025 elections kasi ah we have to
08:43.9
anticipate that will be a battleground
08:45.9
ah a battleground for itong us Iyung
08:51.6
China ano natin problem sa West
08:54.2
Philippines sea mag-spell over yan sa
08:56.5
2025 elections natin kasi Uh if we go
09:05.1
Uh the best way of not winning without
09:08.4
fighting is Actually
09:10.4
coop katunggali mo kaya yung
09:13.1
psychological Warfare is the most
09:14.8
important thing to them No admiral
09:16.4
that's why psychological Warfare is so
09:18.1
important for China
09:20.9
correct it's the cheapest but the most
09:23.6
high impact parang Gan low high impact
09:26.6
kasi when you talk psychological Warfare
09:28.4
ang ang niya yung ano e yung will to
09:31.2
fight yung moral will to fight ng ng
09:35.2
citizens ng kabilang bansa Okay yung
09:38.7
yung ano you compel the other country or
09:42.2
yung adversary mo to Actually ano acceed
09:46.4
or aace to your position um admir I'll
09:50.6
push you a little bit on this No
09:52.6
um so there are two layers to this No
09:56.0
one is pagdating sa mga perceptions of
09:58.5
China saka w Philippines C nakikita
10:00.4
natin ang laki ng um agwat ng opinyon ah
10:05.2
sa mindanao especially ung mga parts ng
10:07.0
Mindanao na malapit sa Davao etc at ah
10:10.2
Iyung ah yyung kabuan ng ating bansa so
10:13.4
there seems to be kind of a Geographic
10:15.1
divide in terms of use of China and
10:17.1
Siguro may kinalaman yyan sa mga
10:19.0
dutertes but secondly and more directly
10:21.6
related dutertes Ah hindi ko alam
10:23.9
admiral anong basa mo dito during time
10:26.8
of degong I Met two kinds of dds
10:29.5
actually I I wrote about five kinds of
10:31.4
dds including yung mga technocrats na
10:33.2
nakikisaka yung mga opportunist yung mga
10:35.2
but but doun sa mga yung mga authentic I
10:37.8
mean sincere na dds if I can put It That
10:40.4
Way yung yung iba sa kanila admiral ah
10:44.3
Siguro nakilala tayo back in the day
10:46.4
lalapit sa Alam mo prof mahal na mahal
10:49.4
ko yan si diong palaban yan pero bakit
10:51.4
sa China ganon po siya So saakin sila
10:53.9
humihingi ng explanation na alam nila
10:55.9
critical pa ako kay Duterte na Bakit
10:57.8
ganun prof ' ba h ba dapat ganon o and
11:00.6
then iyung iba and I think there's still
11:02.6
a lot of them is hindi whatever Duterte
11:04.9
says is the truth ' ba Medyo catch isti
11:07.9
na e i mean i don't want to use the word
11:09.4
culto may pero may pagk ganon na
11:11.7
whatever Duterte says yun na iyon ' ba
11:13.8
So if Duterte says us yyung kalaban
11:16.1
China yyung kaibigan then Yun na yon So
11:19.6
So kaya nga para sa akin it's not like
11:22.2
We're starting from scratch e We are
11:25.4
recovering from six years of duter the
11:29.4
or Duterte dissonance if I can put it
11:31.7
and then right now meron pa ring mga
11:33.4
divided nakita ko yung sws surveys For
11:35.6
instance on on views of West Philippines
11:37.8
si 2022 pa lang and m others and
11:40.2
in-explain ni mangahas yan yung yyung Uh
11:42.2
my f column sa Philippine del enquire
11:44.6
ang layo ng Mindanao Points of view eh
11:46.5
again you can go sub Regional in
11:48.4
Mindanao so I'm sorry to our Mindanao
11:50.0
friends I'm not trying to generalize but
11:52.3
ikaw admiral What is your read on that
11:54.0
kasi It looks like differential yung
11:56.5
impact ng misinformation or
12:00.1
hindi siya even di ba
12:02.5
o i would like to factor another
12:05.8
ano may ibang possibility Well of course
12:08.9
Andun yung ano yung influence of the
12:11.4
dutertes sa mindanao No but we have to
12:15.0
we have to recall na mindana has
12:21.5
from violent extremism tapos yung
12:24.5
terrorism any impacts yung ano yung
12:27.7
communities nila doon So may ah pag
12:30.8
binalanse natin and magkakaroon pa tayo
12:33.8
elections so when you pag win in mo kung
12:36.8
ano yung mas compelling na problem sa
12:39.0
kanila baka yung yung local dynamics
12:42.3
nung anou yung yung effects post
12:44.6
conflict effects trying to recover from
12:47.0
that mas mas mag wewe in yun compared do
12:50.0
sa West Philippines se yyung immediacy
12:52.0
what you're saying is the immediacy and
12:53.9
the historical trauma kind of prevents
12:56.5
some of our kababayan from fully seeing
12:58.5
yung threat coming from the outside yun
13:00.1
yung sinasabi po niyo I see point i see
13:02.4
your point good point Yeah kasi mas mas
13:05.0
impactful yun e naranasan nila yun e
13:07.4
biro mo you're Living with abf you're
13:10.2
Living with secessionism and most likely
13:13.2
affected yyung communities mo by Iyung
13:15.5
labanan between state and non-state
13:18.1
factors so mas mas visual SAO yun mas
13:24.8
and kita mo yun apektado ka ngayon pag
13:28.5
sinabing West Philippines e baka sa from
13:30.4
Mindanao lens Baka parang ano pa yun eh
13:33.7
parang Ah it's a concept or an idea pero
13:37.2
hindi mo ma maramdaman yung epekto mas
13:40.4
abstract siya kaya visceral or immediate
13:43.4
gets Gets ko yan gets
13:45.4
ko that's that's a very good point i do
13:48.3
not completely I do not disagree at all
13:50.7
siguro ang usapan lang dito is Ano yyung
13:52.5
mas mas wagi no doun sa mga factors naan
13:55.3
an yung mas malaking factors no um
13:58.3
admiral before going to the latest in
14:00.1
the West Philippines ino um Honestly
14:03.7
Kayo po bilang isang patriot former Uh
14:06.6
you know top Uh you know top naval
14:09.8
serviceman um how did you feel during
14:12.9
the Duterte time if if if if it's okay
14:15.6
to ask you ako i don't come from a
14:18.4
military background pero bilang isang
14:20.0
scholar ng bayan isang up graduate
14:22.0
bilang para I felt offended na grabe
14:24.8
naman to Parang walang self-respect
14:26.4
itong presidente natin grabe I would
14:29.5
imagine 10 times worse yung sakit sa na
14:32.5
mas masakit d sa ating mga sundalo sa
14:35.2
mga sa mga taong katulad na-
14:38.6
ka na- na ako Can you hear me now
14:46.1
admiral Can you hear me admiral Bakit
14:53.5
ha now Can you hear me
14:58.0
admiral ah wait lang Ayan an meron na
15:02.1
sinas nari Wait lang admiral I'll admit
15:05.9
for a second I thought Parang ayaw m
15:07.6
sagutin yung tanong mo like Hello Hello
15:11.5
you ginaganon ko si secret lam no Baka
15:14.8
may my internet connection issue Uh um
15:17.2
admiral just to ask you about it how did
15:19.0
you feel during the Det time when he was
15:20.6
saying all of those things
15:22.0
na Hindi tugma d sa ating National
15:24.8
interest to put it
15:26.4
mildly okay I think connectivity ises ka
15:31.9
ah well we were personally I was
15:35.5
uncomfortable kasi parang ano eh ah
15:38.3
Parang meron kang ethical dilemma you're
15:40.2
supposed to number one defend yyung
15:43.5
country mo You have to you supposed to
15:45.8
protect Uh your people tapos you Give
15:49.1
this you receive this instructions na
15:51.5
okay bawal magpapatol ng West
15:53.2
Philippines c o ng beyond the exclusive
15:57.1
Ah hindi mo pwede gawin nito ah tapos
16:01.6
ah yung yung ating alyansa with the US
16:05.1
is already ah parang ano ah something
16:09.4
that need to be shell Okay
16:12.5
so iba yyung ano eh ah ah iba Iyung
16:16.2
dynamic sa Navy kasi with the rest of
16:18.4
the arm forces kasi the rest of the arm
16:20.0
forces naman was focused on counter
16:22.2
insurgency So parang Okay lang
16:24.0
tuloy-tuloy lang naman yung ano eh but
16:26.0
for the Navy kasi ang mision namin is to
16:28.1
protect yung ating na yung karagatan
16:31.4
ah that it pos an ethical dilemma na
16:34.0
parang meron kang mandato para gawin yun
16:39.4
no it should be agnostic in terms of
16:43.9
ah ah It is a mandate that you
16:47.5
perform regardless kung sino yung
16:49.4
nakaupo eh But ah for yung yung nakaupo
16:52.7
na yon to say na hindi mo pwede gawin
16:54.5
ito kasi It's against yung policy ako
16:57.7
kasi will affect my our relations with
17:00.4
China para merong ano merong problematic
17:08.2
um so admiral obviously Sir I forgot for
17:11.6
a moment na nag-over laap you were still
17:13.2
in service no um during some of these
17:15.6
years So anong year po kayo nag-retire
17:18.0
from from service
17:21.0
2019 2019 So you had more or less still
17:24.0
3 years so yung first 3 years ni digong
17:26.4
na pinakamahirap no Uh or at least first
17:29.1
3 f years Andon pa sa service um to the
17:31.7
degree that you can share with us
17:33.0
admiral totoo ba na talagang pinapa ng
17:37.2
admin dati yyung mga pangyayari sa West
17:39.7
Philippines totoo ba na talagang in a
17:42.0
way parang pine-pray from exercising
17:45.2
your duties um to the degree that you
17:47.6
can share I mean how bad was
17:51.9
it It's not so much yung ano eh kasi
17:54.8
hindi naman yan ano eh nakasulat na
17:57.9
bawal Bong gawin yan It's nasa ano yun
18:00.6
eh yung ah you can sense naman ung ano
18:05.2
ah ung coordinates of
18:08.6
dire or yung yung gusto mangyari sa taas
18:14.6
ah there are things that we can perform
18:17.0
ah But there are things na hindi mo
18:21.8
ang major na tinamaan doun is yung ano
18:26.6
ah informing the public of What's
18:29.5
happening so minsan minsan nade-delay
18:32.4
yan Minsan after 3 months or after 4
18:34.8
months doon palang lalabas Okay
18:36.0
nagkaroon ng insidente sa ah I remember
18:40.7
yyung ano there was one incident yung
18:44.0
when the aircraft carrier ng China
18:46.8
passed by sio straight it was Several
18:50.8
months Before It was a ano the public
18:54.2
nangyari So it was suppressed way that
18:57.8
was not an exerc of innocent passage
19:00.6
kasi nakaon yung radar and weapon
19:02.2
systems niya ba or Actually in niya yata
19:04.5
yung signal niya ba na parang
19:10.2
something well you can say They were not
19:13.8
violating International Law kasi number
19:17.2
one international straight naman yung
19:22.0
expeditious we presume Yung kanyang
19:27.7
waters but aside from International Law
19:30.4
there sa tingas ano yung parang practice
19:32.4
sa navies e particularly as it affect
19:35.1
the Philippines pag may mga foreign Navy
19:37.0
so international nav is coming into our
19:38.6
archipel normally nagre-request siya ng
19:41.3
diplomatic clearance ah as a courtesy
19:44.7
okay but for this ano yung for this type
19:48.1
of incidents they just pass through our
19:51.8
pasintabe so when you ask the Embassy
19:53.9
ung Embassy nila anong nangyari sabih
19:55.9
sasabihin nila They were also not
19:57.7
informed Okay so merang ganong insidente
20:04.8
um So that's why transparency initiative
20:07.5
is very important no Uh That's where the
20:10.4
value of transparency initiative comes
20:12.0
in because yun yyung talagang missing
20:13.6
nung panon ni diong ' ba Yes
20:16.7
ah ang ganito yung ano eh parang ganito
20:19.7
Yung logic don eh Ah kung hindi tayo
20:22.2
maingay nung time na yon ang theory ang
20:25.3
theory Don is hindi ka maingay then
20:28.1
hindi yung you can do other things
20:31.0
within the West Philippines sea na hindi
20:44.4
activities nila eh
20:46.5
Ah sa West Philippines tuloy-tuloy lang
20:49.4
yon So yung yung yung konsepto na kung
20:53.0
Tahimik ka ah hindi rin sila gagalaw at
20:56.2
hindi rin sila magaras ng ating mga
20:59.2
mamamayan hindi rin naman nangyari
21:01.8
yun and it create a parang safe space sa
21:05.4
kanila eh Ah which nararamdaman nga
21:08.6
natin yung epekto kasi we created the
21:11.9
safe space Para mag-expand sila to our
21:14.3
exclusive economic zone ngayon
21:21.4
kino-confirm Back Eh kasi naka ano na
21:24.7
sila eh more or less naka-leather
21:31.4
ground kaya if we are to Uh yung short
21:34.8
talaga natin dito is kung Babalikan
21:37.8
natin we need to be present also we need
21:40.6
to establish we need to restore yung
21:44.0
Presence presensya natin sa dagat
21:47.2
natin right apologies lang admiral I'm
21:51.2
thinking looks like there's some network
21:53.1
issues a Lahat ng tao ay
21:57.3
nag-aral check yung network mukhang
21:59.8
lahat may network connection in the area
22:01.3
and all so Hindi ko kasalanan I thought
22:22.8
things against Sarah all of these icc
22:25.8
things all of these things move forward
22:27.6
do you think um this could lead to
22:30.8
instability that could undermine the
22:32.5
country or do you think na whatever
22:35.0
happens We can still hold this together
22:36.7
or if anything Actually the country can
22:38.6
come out Better out of this Uh itong
22:41.7
hidwaan ng mga malalaking pamilya or
22:45.6
dynasties ang ang kung ikakabit lang
22:48.6
natin sa West Philippines ang nakita ko
22:50.4
ng potential diyan is sa of course yung
22:53.9
ano yung it will create some political
22:59.4
with within the country so that
23:02.3
political tension creates a
23:03.9
vulnerability for us that can be
23:06.9
exploitable so hindi natin maano but
23:10.3
again we do not go that process kasi we
23:13.9
need to we need to confront the
23:17.9
problem at some point there needs to be
23:22.4
of hindi naman retribution
23:29.1
we need to examine Okay ano yung
23:31.0
nangyari and ano yung implication ginawa
23:33.5
nila for the past few years Okay ano
23:36.1
yung naviolate nilang
23:37.9
batas so we need to go through that
23:40.2
process of confrontation
23:45.8
tayo again so on one hand you're saying
23:48.8
admiral na ito ay it is what it is we
23:51.8
have to go through this process kung
23:52.9
talaga there's grounds to questioning
23:55.5
conduct ng mga duter as as President or
23:59.9
but don't you think also this process
24:01.7
could be kind of a mobilizing catalyst
24:04.7
or catalyst for for a better
24:07.0
understanding ano yung mga minimum na
24:10.0
kailangan natin bilang isang bansa way
24:12.4
what I'm saying is Hindi ba Siguro
24:13.9
magkaroon din ng opportunity out of this
24:16.1
Crisis for the Philippines to figure out
24:18.9
Ano ba talagang gusto niya ano Talagang
24:23.0
gawin kung Babalikan natin yung past si
24:25.8
years We went through a populist
24:30.8
regime and tapos ang dami na ang
24:35.6
daming nating inallow na laws to be
24:39.0
violated ah Even tayo rin e as citizens
24:43.2
e we need to examine Why did we kasi in
24:46.8
a way Party tayo roon e we kep silent or
24:50.9
hinaya lang natin we are also party to
24:53.1
that question of Ano ba yung ano ba yung
24:56.0
mga accountability Ano ba yung
24:57.8
accountability natin as sa Citizen Okay
25:00.6
tayo bilang Citizen ah tayong lahat Ano
25:03.4
yung accountability natin for allowing
25:05.3
certain law to be violated those p
25:10.1
years and also understanding What are
25:12.4
these laws and Bakit andun iyung mga
25:14.4
batas na iyan ' ba na Why you can't make
25:16.5
just secret agreements Bakit dapat may
25:19.1
certain degree of transparency dapat may
25:21.0
multi-stakeholder interaction kasi the
25:22.9
reason I'm saying This is admiral I
25:24.5
think the ngayon lang natin nakikita
25:27.4
yung clear contract trusts of views no
25:29.9
na kung saan talaga ah you know some of
25:32.0
the biggest Families dynasties in the
25:33.7
country are openly questioning each
25:36.3
others point of view doon sa ating
25:37.8
National interest Di ba I mean the
25:39.0
dutertes are the most outspoken critics
25:41.9
of some what some understand as a kind
25:44.0
of an normal Philippine foreign policy
25:46.6
and as far as President Marcus is
25:48.2
concerned he He's also very proactive in
25:50.9
pushing for an understand of the
25:53.0
Philippines as a rising middle power and
25:56.0
more independent multi alliant forign
25:58.3
policy so in a sense ako para sa akin
26:01.0
ngayon nakikita natin na nagkakaroon ng
26:03.3
clear articulation and clear fault lines
26:05.6
and distinctions na wala Dati kasi dati
26:07.9
trapo trapo lang ' ba anyone will just
26:09.8
say you know motherhood statements
26:11.6
ngayon very clear na iyung distinction I
26:13.9
mean I would have expected that to
26:15.4
happen if former President Aquino God
26:17.1
blesses all I mean if he were actively
26:19.2
opposing Duterte in his earlier years eh
26:21.3
hindi nangyari Iyun I mean he chose you
26:23.7
know dignified Silence na lang but now
26:26.5
talagang you can see the clear contrast
26:28.8
walang dignified neither dignity nor
26:31.4
silent si digong ' ba openly kini
26:34.0
question niya and he provides an
26:35.4
alternative narrative some would even
26:37.4
say propaganda or disinformation while
26:39.5
President Marcus also very actively
26:41.6
insist na tama Iyung ginagawa niya and
26:43.6
he has to be supported accordingly so
26:45.8
look at the SONA speech of Marcos or
26:48.2
international speeches niya and then
26:49.6
Titingnan mo yyung mga sinasabi ni
26:51.4
Duterte sa smi whatever so Now you have
26:54.0
a clear conta between two major Figures
26:56.7
in Philippine politics in the way we
26:58.5
didn't have before right so so there's
27:00.5
now more room for strategic
27:02.4
discussion but whether you support
27:04.6
either of the Families the fact that we
27:06.7
are having this public Debate
27:09.5
ah I think it's good for the country ah
27:13.7
nagkakaron ng participation yung
27:16.2
citizens natin yung masa and then we all
27:19.3
Learn from this I think Uh we will all
27:22.7
Learn from this yung ano yung process na
27:24.3
ito ah whether whether masaktan tayo
27:26.8
Hindi kasi meron tayong pinapanigan
27:29.3
tapos nakita natin yung pinapanigan
27:31.1
natin parang later iquest ko tama ba
27:34.7
yung posisyon ko noon O ngayon okay Kasi
27:39.5
ano eh ah kung hindi natin gagawin yung
27:42.6
ah Parang we swept under the rug yyung
27:46.1
ano eh yung nangyari before e and it
27:49.5
that creates the possibility na mangyari
27:54.9
okay kasi sa ibang bansa ' ba ah admiral
27:58.6
What happened is they had Wars or they
28:00.5
have clear and present danger whether
28:02.2
This is South Korea North Korea Taiwan
28:04.8
Uh you know China I can go on and on di
28:07.7
ba tayo kasi um because of our geography
28:10.8
you know Yes there was the World War I
28:12.5
and all pero We always had a degree of
28:14.4
insulation from direct military threat
28:16.9
or occupation Di ba in waste that Many
28:19.2
of our Neighbors never had so in that
28:20.8
sense strategic culture sigur din ang
28:23.3
issue dito no we never develop a kind of
28:25.0
a sophisticated strategic culture
28:27.1
because there was always the US and also
28:29.3
the vast waters and Oceans to protect us
28:33.2
well yung geography natin created
28:35.4
certain level of complacency
28:37.3
on our part Uh as you are correct we
28:41.0
never developed the strategic culture
28:43.2
kasi we were never in a situation as a
28:46.3
community as as a nation parang under
28:49.0
threat tayo yung existence natin can can
28:52.3
be mawala lang just a matter of hours or
28:56.8
days so we never had that ano eh that
28:59.6
fear Okay we never had that fear na
29:04.1
Ah pwede tayong tamaan In Time so
29:07.9
because of that complacency
29:11.4
ah mahaba yung PC natin kung napapansin
29:15.5
mo mahaba yung PC natin even if dihado
29:18.2
na tay k balik natin yung discussion sa
29:20.4
western ah biado na tayo sa dagat and
29:24.5
Mahaba pa rin yung PC natin
29:28.8
So In what ways do you think we're we're
29:31.6
moving in the right Direction Uh admiral
29:34.0
I mean of course we're having our own
29:35.3
little conversations here um you know we
29:38.4
have our old forum all of these things
29:40.7
but in in what ways pwede pa tayo
29:43.0
tumulong lalo Uh admiral pagdating sa
29:45.7
development of that strategic culture
29:47.7
Gaano kalaking role ng public thinkers
29:50.6
influencers for that matter and
29:52.3
Journalists in that matter Well I think
29:54.9
yung ginagawa mo Richard is the correct
29:57.3
traj to for this ano eh Uh discussion ah
30:01.0
open up to public disc tapos Uh of
30:04.1
course when we communicate Uh make it ah
30:07.4
kumbaga maintindihan ng Masa
30:08.8
maintindihan ng tao yung yung yung
30:10.9
issues Okay ah binababa natin yung level
30:14.2
of discourse para ano eh para makahabol
30:17.0
lahat Ah okay kasi one of I think if i
30:20.3
recall one of the questions kung dun
30:22.3
nung media n forum natin nung isang araw
30:25.4
as yung yung discussion na West
30:28.4
Philippines is not bread and battle
30:30.1
issue hindi siya got level issue but I
30:32.8
think we we we responded to them say
30:36.2
ganito yan It's a bread and butter issue
30:39.5
If You Look at it from this perspective
30:41.1
of certain aspects of human security
30:45.5
tinatahan so so again when this forum
30:50.0
provides us the venue
30:51.6
to elucidate or to explain better Ah
30:55.2
yung noan problem as opposed to yung
30:58.8
parang abstract concept siya ah hindi
31:02.5
hindi hindi ma-gets ng ano eh hindi
31:04.4
ma-gets ng ating mga mamamayan Eh kasi
31:07.6
parang hindi naman hindi naman nila
31:28.0
know ah makikita ng tao talaga na may
31:30.4
may may bread and butter implication ito
31:32.6
in this sense Uh in this case ah isda '
31:36.1
ba Ah hindi lang apektado yung ating
31:37.7
mangingisda apektado yyung fit security
31:39.6
natin apektado din of course yung energy
31:42.1
Uh security natin dahil hindi natin
31:44.4
ma-develop Iyung read bank For instance
31:46.0
I mean imagine kung wala Iyung bulling
31:48.0
ng China eh matagal na sana natin
31:49.4
na-develop yyung read bank ' ba e sana
31:51.4
mas mura ngayon ang ang electricity eh
31:53.7
di sana mas murang Lahat ' ba So may
31:55.4
inflationary impact yan So yun ang
31:57.4
problema hindi na-discuss ng mabuti at
31:59.7
yun din ang sinabi ko admiral dun sa
32:01.6
forum natin na hindi rin pinag-usapan ng
32:04.3
mabuti ano yung cost ng ginagawa ng
32:06.4
China ilang daan milyon ang nawawala sa
32:09.4
atin ilang bilyon dollars dollars bawat
32:12.3
taon nawawala sa atin dahil sa illegal
32:14.2
fishing ng China ilang bilyon na nawala
32:16.5
sa atin dahil hindi natin ma-develop
32:17.8
Iyung readed bank oil and gas resources
32:20.1
not to mention ung mga ibang areas so i
32:22.3
think kulang tayo sa communications and
32:25.2
framing at Ah naintindihan ko syempre
32:28.4
busy tayo sa International Law sa
32:30.0
military Affairs AF modernization pero I
32:32.8
think Hindi natin dapat take for granted
32:34.6
no speaking of complacency totoo na 90
32:37.7
plus per ng Filipino ay gusto nila mas
32:40.1
malakas yung ating stance proactive
32:42.0
stance natin sa but we shouldn't take it
32:43.7
for granted right even that 90% Could
32:46.3
could dissipate over time if we don't do
32:49.2
job correct Okay ah when you mention
32:52.6
also yung strategic culture meron din
32:55.1
tayong ano eh yung that great divide na
32:58.0
nakita ko that we need to address It's
33:01.4
that yung stove pipe of National
33:04.2
Security and yung understanding our
33:06.2
economic iung Economics natin kasi those
33:09.7
two those two cultures ah sa sa ating
33:12.5
burokrasya Hindi nag-uusap yan eh Okay
33:16.0
so i think we need to look for that
33:17.7
Nexus wherein National Security concerns
33:20.7
and Iyung economic concerns natin
33:23.2
nag-uusap para the sort of feed of each
33:26.1
other okay ah example yung ano yung sa
33:30.3
rbank yyung energy security issue Don
33:32.2
because we need the replacement for
33:34.2
Malampaya hindi masyadong nahihimay yun
33:38.1
okay kasi hindi hindi naman ano eh
33:41.0
normally sa sa security service Hindi
33:44.3
naman talaga hinihimay yung issues of
33:47.6
economics e ah unless magkaroon na
33:51.8
opportunity to interact with other
33:53.9
members of the bureaucracy that is focus
33:55.8
on economy so yun yung kailangan
33:59.0
makita ng kung sa burokrasya natin May
34:03.0
pagkukulang ina-add natin y dapat ibaba
34:07.0
rin natin yung diskurso sa publiko para
34:09.2
makita rin nila yung yung Nexus of
34:11.7
security saka yung kanilang economic
34:14.9
wellbeing so yun yung nakikita ko r ah
34:19.2
pwedeng pwedeng pag-usapan future
34:23.0
Uh of there are opportunities or other
34:26.0
forums na pag pwedeng pag-usapan
34:29.1
Absolutely ang dami pa natin pwedeng
34:31.0
pag-usapan in the context of West
34:32.4
philippines e kaya dun sa susunod na
34:34.1
episodes gusto natin makuha ng mga
34:35.6
economists mga mangingisda civil society
34:38.7
Catholic Church so malawak na issue ito
34:41.1
no admiral completely agree with you
34:44.0
um isingit ko lang ito um Syempre ngayon
34:48.0
may budget hearing budget deliberation
34:49.8
Kaya lumabas itong 10 milliones isang
34:52.8
kaibigan project ni Madam and and all of
34:55.6
that to what degree is budget an issue
34:59.2
pagdating sa defense of West Philippines
35:01.2
sea to to what degree is corruption
35:03.7
still a Concern in terms of preventing
35:05.8
us from developing yung ating kakayahan
35:08.2
pagdating sa pagdepensa ng ating
35:10.0
karagatan ating teritorya at sya Anong
35:13.4
bas ni diyan admiral how serious are
35:15.7
those problems in terms of undermining
35:17.8
yung ating National interest orung
35:20.3
position natin to protect our National
35:22.2
interest Okay Uh when you talk the
35:25.3
budget empre you want you want to be
35:28.2
optimal in your ano
35:30.7
yung resources no Gusto mo makuha mo yan
35:33.9
but you have to be also a responsible
35:36.0
ano bureaucrat kumbaga Naintindihan
35:38.4
naman natin that yyung piece of the pie
35:41.4
there are also competing and equally
35:43.7
important concerns na kailangan din
35:45.8
tugunan ng gobyerno okay for example
35:48.5
education health okay Ah naintindihan
35:52.0
natin yon So ah naintindihan din natin
35:54.9
na ang kaya lang ng gobyerno is yung
35:56.8
itong p of the pay ng K pay that goes to
35:60.0
the Defense or sa military at saka sa
36:02.2
other security services now ang ah We
36:05.6
always believe that the foundation of a
36:08.0
a robust military Uh capability is a
36:13.3
very robust economy so babalik tayo Ron
36:15.8
sa ano eh ah kailangan nating Palakasin
36:18.4
yung ating ekonomiya para magkaroon tayo
36:21.0
ng resources para tama lang ung pagkak
36:24.3
depensa natin sa ating bansa Okay so
36:27.2
chicken inin EG yan eh ano yung uunahin
36:29.1
mo ah guns versus bter ah at some point
36:32.4
You have to make some calibrated choices
36:35.4
kasi may opportunity cost involved diyan
36:37.3
e corruption ah ang nakita ko kasi bago
36:41.8
ako umalis ng service na and I at some
36:46.8
ah ah my Duty as ano e as member of the
36:51.6
be and award committee sa sa
36:54.3
headquarters nakita ko naman ano eh Ah
36:56.8
very yung sistema very open and Uh
37:01.0
maraming check and balances Uh to ensure
37:03.3
that no corruption Uh Uh can chipin I'm
37:07.5
not saying na 100% wala but I'm saying
37:10.3
na as far as I'm concerned ang nakita ko
37:12.8
the mechanisms in place or designed to
37:15.3
prevent corruption is this the result of
37:17.7
the reforms during Uh general Bautista
37:20.7
the whole bayanan and the Akina
37:22.4
administration buse I know there was
37:23.8
some efforts to further professionalize
37:25.7
and tighten things up in the it's an It
37:28.4
was an incremental evolution of reforms
37:30.8
that came in during time of President
37:32.8
Cory moving forward even up to the time
37:35.5
of President Pinoy so dahan-dahan Iyun
37:38.0
that it was adopted i i mentioned about
37:40.3
the beach and award committee so Iyung
37:42.8
beachin award na yyun sa Department of
37:44.9
National defense It's open to Ano Andun
37:47.9
yung kaa e andun yyung commision ng ano
37:50.5
e audit may representative Don may
37:53.6
representative din yung civil society
37:55.4
they can come in Anytime and sit
37:58.0
Uh they are Actually invited to sit Uh
38:02.3
Uh meetings para ano nakikita nila yung
38:05.8
ano Papaano yung Saan So may
38:08.1
transparency multi-stakeholder
38:10.6
participation may transparency siya ah
38:14.5
of course merong problema minsan sa
38:17.2
bidding but it's more of a technical
38:18.9
issue ah rather than
38:21.8
yyung corruption issue na a technical
38:25.2
issue that Uh merong fail bids Okay you
38:28.8
mean procurement la yung mga ganon
38:31.9
la pumas batas natin it has impact on
38:36.4
Kaya minsan nade-delay Yung proseso ng
38:41.6
Ah it's not as fast as we want but
38:45.2
that's the trade of we agreed on just to
38:50.3
make sure na At least we an we address
38:54.8
the issue of corruption do sa process
38:58.6
not perfect but Uh but incremental
39:02.0
improvement so so that Hindi ibig
39:03.9
sabihin nian hopeless case I mean you
39:05.8
always hear this this rhetoric
39:07.4
especially from some in the opposition
39:08.7
now Philippines is Hopelessly corrupt
39:10.4
whatever is like have you been around
39:12.1
the world Have you seen corruption
39:13.7
scandals in Bangladesh Malaysia even sa
39:16.4
mga developed countries or more
39:17.7
developed countries we see all sorts of
39:19.2
different corruption scandals the Philip
39:21.2
is not singularly exceptionally corrupt
39:23.8
there is corruption It's serious but but
39:26.2
you know untiunti naayos din natin yan
39:28.4
and hopefully we we move more in the
39:30.0
right Direction Kanina lang kausap ko
39:31.4
dun sa isang show ko naman si si Uh
39:33.9
Dindo manhid no And we're talking about
39:36.0
how to make Philippines more investment
39:37.8
friendly the risking iung mga ganon
39:39.6
ganon so i think Sometimes we don't give
39:41.7
ourself enough credit no including doon
39:43.8
sa AFP modernization we have come a long
39:46.0
way over the past 10 years no admiral in
39:48.6
terms of modernizing our naval assets
39:50.9
and and even air force for that
39:53.2
matter Okay sa modernization naman you
39:56.6
must remember yung Although I never saw
39:58.4
the list of kung ano yung re
40:00.9
Horizon Ah yung free third Horizon na
40:04.6
ginawang 10 years yung third Uh third
40:07.2
phase ng Horizon yyung reh Horizon list
40:12.4
Believe Ano ito eh combination ng yung
40:16.1
remnant of the projects ng Horizon 2 ah
40:19.7
na Hindi natapos hindi na then yung
40:22.6
Horizon 3 itself pinag yun Then
40:24.7
nag-review uli sila kung ano yung
40:27.6
i-maintain lang tapos ano na yung hindi
40:29.9
na itutuloy that's the horizon So
40:35.8
ano it's based on
40:38.3
yung modernization plan or program yung
40:42.6
revis plan that we had several years ago
40:46.7
ang nakikita ko lang ditong
40:49.1
ano concern is yung agility natin yung
40:54.0
sense of agility natin to address new
40:56.0
threats okay and ung agility natin in
40:58.6
terms of adopting new technology ang
41:01.4
kasi ang perenal worry natin Uh if you
41:03.8
are um planning yyung defense Planner is
41:07.4
baka yung binibili mo ngayong equipment
41:10.2
by the time that you get it 5 years 6
41:13.2
years Down The Road obsolete na obsolete
41:16.7
na siya tapos there are may na overtake
41:18.8
ng technological innovations and new Uh
41:21.4
it can be technology or it can be an
41:23.9
innovation in war fighting that Uh came
41:26.8
about Yes that actually debunks the need
41:29.6
for that technology Okay so pwedeng
41:32.4
mangyari yun and that is yung fear mo as
41:34.4
a defense Planner baka
41:36.4
Ah hindi na fit yung iire mong gamit ah
41:43.1
by the time that you kun you're
41:45.8
developing certain aircraft and then new
41:47.4
drones come that are very effective
41:49.2
against large aircraft so sin mo lang
41:52.8
parang for example Ano Let's take
41:56.2
thee Russian conflict like and I've Uh
42:00.2
given this lecture many times e Parang
42:03.8
Tingnan niyo yyung Ukraine it has not a
42:06.2
no no Navy it's not nonexistent But it
42:09.0
has a Ukraine Navy and it was able to or
42:12.7
defeat Iyung Russian black sea without
42:16.7
ships Okay what did they use drones Okay
42:20.8
so nakita natin yung yung Advent of
42:23.8
technology has a as an asymmetric
42:28.5
capability kumbaga parang Nab niya yung
42:31.2
ano e yung yung the use of large ships e
42:36.9
operations Ano ba yung pang pinalubog
42:39.9
nila yung flagship ng black sea fleet
42:42.8
MB and that that created a lot of moral
42:47.8
russi and we saw earlier also with Saudi
42:50.3
Arabia and Yemen they have All These
42:52.8
fancy toys and bub saradong both
42:55.5
emiratis and saudis although I know that
42:57.4
the chism is baka incompetent lang iyung
42:59.4
mga armed forces na iyan but but I think
43:01.1
even there we saw the the limitations of
43:03.3
modern Uh even western technology forget
43:06.2
about Russian technology I think it's a
43:08.3
good segway dito sa sa West Philippines
43:10.8
se pero last isisingit ko lang talagang
43:13.2
ay hindi naman hindi naman kita
43:14.8
pinapahamak admiral but
43:17.3
um do you think there there could be a
43:19.9
threat of an know do you think China has
43:23.3
an interest in feeding into or fueling
43:28.2
mini Civil War let's say if ever things
43:31.1
really get out of control with the
43:32.4
dutertes let's say papunta sa arrest ng
43:35.5
mga dutertes maimpeach si Sara yung mga
43:38.1
ganon imagine the worst case scen in
43:40.6
terms of like the ultimate outcome of
43:42.4
What's happening right now if if all of
43:44.1
these factors that are coming together
43:45.8
quc investigation potential icc warrants
43:49.0
of arrest if all of these things come
43:51.2
together and then the go bazooka Uh or
43:54.8
berserk um you think China has will have
43:58.3
an interest in sewing um Trouble in
44:01.7
Southern Philippines to bug us down in
44:03.5
the same way that Malaysia I mean the
44:04.8
reason I'm saying This is because
44:05.9
Malaysia did that to us for decade after
44:08.5
decade after decade because they were
44:10.7
scared na if we're strong and not
44:12.8
divided then will will be a threat to
44:14.9
them in sawa ba and and compared to
44:17.8
Malaysia China has so many vectors of
44:19.6
influence that that Malaysia never had
44:21.7
especially back in the 70s or 80s okay
44:25.5
your concern has married so I I go back
44:27.6
to yung ano I read something about yung
44:29.1
tinatawag nating red theory of victory
44:32.5
okay yung red theory of victory has two
44:35.1
components the first one is fit your
44:37.9
question mo ang one red theory with
44:40.6
three component is if I can divide my
44:44.2
enemy para mag-away-away sila that's
44:47.4
already a win for me I then I don't have
44:49.8
to go to work okay if I have
44:52.6
sufficiently destabilized my adversary
44:57.8
na-distract na sila
45:00.2
Ah because of infighting and They're no
45:03.0
longer focusing on
45:04.5
me I win already panalo na ako doon The
45:09.2
Other aspect of That's a minimalist
45:11.4
let's just say That's a minimalist
45:13.5
approach right right yeah yeah Okay the
45:16.9
other one siguro is the proper segway to
45:19.9
West Philippines is on escalation naman
45:23.0
if I can escalate it to the point na ah
45:28.4
to the point that you are willing to
45:31.0
give up your National interest because
45:34.6
you're afraid I will escalate situation
45:37.0
further so youd rather give it up to to
45:41.5
make sure to De escalate okay and we've
45:45.1
seen that happen Okay so those are the
45:49.4
of victory place So yung the other one
45:53.7
fit into yung question mo kan is ability
45:57.5
of course yes Uh it doesn't have to be a
46:01.0
successful regime change if I follow
46:04.2
Yung logic question mo It just needs to
46:12.0
way ah na hindi tayo makatutok sa West
46:16.8
Philippines and Mindanao looks like a
46:19.6
soft under Bell if I I use the churchil
46:22.4
description yeah and if you go back just
46:25.4
a few years earlier
46:27.5
ba we were focus on the ano cpp and
46:30.3
pndf yung local communist movement for 5
46:33.9
decades kaya for 5 decades Nobody's
46:37.6
mining the store as para sa defending
46:40.5
yung ating territorial
46:42.9
Wat kasi we were looking
46:46.7
inward If You're asking
46:49.2
for analogy That's a best analogy for
46:55.8
mo think of this What's happening in the
46:58.4
West Philippines obviously medyo weird
47:00.9
yung nangyari kasi The Breaking news was
47:02.5
being broken down as we were having
47:04.9
conversation The Other morning doon sa
47:07.2
aak forum natin sa adriatic ca cafe Um
47:12.8
initial read and then Now let's say 24
47:16.9
hours to 48 hours remov from the
47:18.9
incident How was your read of the
47:21.1
situation evolve first in terms of the
47:23.2
immediate implications and at the same
47:25.3
time in terms of understanding of UN
47:27.1
broader macro strategy ng China ah diyan
47:31.3
Philippines Okay I think during the utak
47:35.4
forum I mention naman yung ano e the way
47:38.0
I constructed yung
47:41.1
yung strategy ng China sa West South
47:44.4
China Sea is they're after sea control
47:47.1
of the entire body of water of South
47:52.2
Sea so ang ano do
47:57.0
yung nangyayari we cannot isolate just
47:59.1
yung incidence sa scar bor sa second
48:02.6
Sain as a separate they are part of they
48:06.7
are part of one ano e kumbaga ecos great
48:10.7
theater o one theater of operations yan
48:13.6
e okay now if we deconstruct yung ano
48:17.4
yyung Sabina show incident yung our post
48:21.2
guard I I mention sa uta for na it's the
48:25.6
same playbook na ginamit nila sa second
48:29.5
ah ang point lang ni race ni I think ni
48:33.2
yusef Jonathan was ah ang mission nung
48:36.0
dalawang barko was actually to resupply
48:38.4
other Islands and features I think it
48:41.0
was mentioned the paper yung lawak saka
48:42.9
panatag okay but that's us We know that
48:46.1
yun yyung mission but if baliktarin mo
48:49.1
yyung Mundo and Look at it from the lens
48:52.5
China I think they were overthinking
48:55.0
They were thinking na we are trying to
48:57.0
duplicate yung seram Madre tactic natin
49:00.3
paranoid sila in that sense Oo ah They
49:03.8
were thinking already yyung Teresa
49:05.3
Magbanua ibach natin yun o
49:25.7
ipe-perform this podcast before Sabi ko
49:27.9
bine reconstruct natin yung ano eh yung
49:30.4
yung what is second thas sh So you have
49:33.9
we occupy the inside the sh through yung
49:37.0
Sher Madre But we do not control the
49:39.4
waters around second thas sh kasi andun
49:41.9
Iyung Presence ng coastguard and B siya
49:44.2
the third component nung nung system na
49:47.4
iyon is Iyung mobility Corridor
49:51.9
yung siera Madre to pin lang Palawan and
49:57.4
resupply ship o yung resupply boat in
50:01.0
this case if you go to second Tom ang
50:03.6
tinitira palagi ng China yung resupply
50:05.9
boat meaning yung sustaining capability
50:09.5
so dito if yung nangyari sa ano sa
50:14.2
sab and kung ang They were thinking na
50:18.8
This is going to be a Ser part two Anong
50:22.6
tinir nila yung dalawang coast guard
50:24.9
chip that are operating as resupply
50:28.9
vessels Okay so ah ang tingin ni lang
50:31.7
ngayon coast guard is G joining Navy in
50:34.5
in in helping you know fortifying our
50:37.2
military Presence on the ground Parang
50:38.7
ganon Iyung basa nila Iyung basa mo sa
50:42.1
O I think they were trying They were
50:44.7
mirror imaging eh Uh They were trying to
50:47.4
tama iung project their own what they
50:49.6
would have done in our place
50:52.7
Oo kaya talagang niram nila yung
50:55.8
dalawang coast guard
50:57.9
ah now kung napin down nila y babalik
51:02.3
ano Y ah hindi natin magagamit y kasi
51:04.7
vessel need to go rep so for that period
51:08.7
Uh unless the pog is able to replace the
51:12.0
two vessels with the new on but I would
51:15.0
expect kag pinalitan Gan ang gagawin
51:20.2
ulit and you were saying mission kill
51:23.1
could be one of their I mean grade our
51:27.2
capability for resupply and Patrol could
51:29.1
be also one of the OP shots of their
51:31.0
their strategy or part of their strategy
51:33.0
rather Yeah mission kill I point the
51:36.3
word mission kill tactic basically It's
51:38.6
address to bar kung hindi nila ma-
51:42.2
perform yung mission niya because of
51:46.1
ah derangement o nasira siya in this
51:50.0
case nabutasan yung bar obviously
51:51.8
babalik mo sa ano kailangan mo siya
51:54.2
mag-take ng repair so for the period na
51:57.0
hindi natin siya magamit ah that we lose
52:00.2
that opportunity to use that wessel for
52:03.6
Missions eh Alam ko 10 lang yung ganong
52:06.8
type ofel So kung uulit-ulitin yung
52:10.4
tactic maubusan tayo ng in like manner
52:15.5
tayo so in that sense obviously my
52:19.4
position is transparency initiative has
52:21.8
its own value Uh it has helped us to
52:24.2
mobilize public support get the basic
52:28.0
um at the same I see the value of the
52:31.2
AFP not asking yung yung tulong galing
52:33.5
sa US in a sense that we can handle it
52:36.2
ourselves but if if if the current trend
52:39.6
lines continue and your mission kill
52:41.1
hypothesis reaches the next logical
52:43.8
conclusion then Uh Medyo alanganin tayo
52:47.4
No admiral I mean What kind of
52:49.4
adjustments or Uh upscaling We may need
52:52.9
in the coming months para siguraduhin
52:54.7
natin na ma-maintain at preserve na
52:56.5
natin yung position natin on the ground
52:57.8
we have like what eight features to
53:00.9
least I think we also discussed this
53:03.2
Before yung yung option natin is Uh
53:06.5
looking at Larger commercial type
53:08.6
vessels that we can lease then Later on
53:11.7
maybe buy and may repurpose or
53:14.2
Commission as as naval vessels or
53:18.6
ah kasi yung labanan labanan dito
53:21.8
palakihan ng barko eh kung makikita mo
53:25.0
at ang n ang nadadali sa atin yung ating
53:29.2
mga maliliit na barko eh Ah They're not
53:32.5
equipped for yung 44 meters pa yyung mga
53:34.7
tinaman were the like 44 44 meters Iyun
53:37.9
eh and you Actually need those 44 meters
53:41.2
kasi sila yung nakakapasok sa loob ng
53:42.7
show Okay ah kasi medyo ano eh Medyo
53:46.4
mababaw there portions mababaw
53:49.1
ah tsaka mas mabili sila So merong
53:52.4
utility kung bakit ganong type of
53:53.9
vessels ang ginagamit natin but of
53:56.2
course it L itself to certain
53:57.6
vulnerabilities kagaya nga non ah
54:00.2
dinikitan sila hram sila ng mas malaking
54:02.2
post guard vessel obviously yung impact
54:04.8
no with create that yung damage na
54:07.6
nakita natin is dalawang
54:11.4
Um what about the aspect of the I know
54:14.5
inulit natin yyan but medyo nakakatakot
54:16.7
na nangyari to do you think we should
54:18.4
really Uh adjust yyung mdt natin to to
54:21.6
deal also with gray zones I mean how can
54:23.6
the US be helpful how can our allies be
54:25.5
helpful in dealing with this kinds of
54:26.8
grisons this is very very aggressive at
54:29.0
least nagsalita na iyung mga ibang bansa
54:30.8
After this incident kasi timing sila
54:32.9
after Iyung aircraft incident last week
54:37.6
eh yung saakin kasi Richard bago natin
54:41.0
saakin kasi last option yung mdt kumbaga
54:44.7
extreme case na yun e sa akin kasi
54:47.7
parang ang tanong ko is baka kailangan
54:50.1
mag-adjust tayo muna ng
54:53.5
tactics mag-adjust muna tayo ng tactics
54:55.9
bago tayo mag call for call a friend
54:58.9
okay kasi ang nakita ko rito
55:01.6
ah we we are using tactics that we
55:05.9
kumbaga basang-basa na talaga ng kabila
55:09.6
na na yung ano niya yung tapos ah pag
55:25.3
inescapable na escalate ah then mahina
55:29.2
loob mo ang ang gagawin mo is not to
55:31.2
escalate It's to De escalated at some
55:33.6
point when you de-escalate ah ang you
55:37.2
Might Be compelled to give up ano Iyung
55:38.7
pinoprotektahan mo
55:40.1
eh Okay in this case ah if we followed
55:44.0
yung we Follow the playbook ah under
55:47.6
using Iyung lente ng ng kabila ang ang
55:52.0
ang vision nila rito is ah Ano ba
55:55.6
objective nila pauwiin yung Teresa magb
55:59.7
eh Yun yung ano nila e yun yung yun yung
56:02.8
ano nila eh But if we do that tapos
56:05.5
walang walang replacement that creates a
56:07.7
vulnerability papasukan na nila yon kasi
56:11.0
one thing also I learned during my past
56:13.9
life di sa naval forces
56:16.4
ah pag nagpakita ka ng interest sa isang
56:20.1
area tapos hindi mo siya p pins
56:24.6
papasukan na nila yon hindi mo
56:26.6
pinanindigan kasi Yeah in-expose mo na
56:29.4
in-expose mo na yung sarili mo na
56:31.0
importante SAO yun
56:32.6
eh Okay so uunahan ka na nila doon dito
56:37.2
ah whether we like it or not pinakita
56:39.3
natin critical yung sabihin na show sa
56:41.7
atin and tama lang naman kasi 75 atic
56:44.5
Miles from inland Palawan e So kung
56:47.4
makitaan tayo ng butas niyan let's say
56:50.4
for some reason we are forced to Pull
56:53.6
out Teres Magbanua without any
56:55.7
replacement men papasukan na nila yan
56:58.0
hindi na Nil bibitawan yan scar scar
57:01.0
yung ano natin yung pupuntahan natin Ako
57:05.8
naman kasi admiral It's not about
57:08.2
calling the friend It's about using the
57:10.4
calling the friend card in a more
57:12.1
effective I can put It That Way ba so so
57:15.0
For instance we have this New 500
57:16.8
million defense aid package Uh
57:20.2
ambassador m just told me the last week
57:21.7
during sa interview natin on this show
57:23.6
na You Know We're Looking at up to 3
57:26.8
total package of defense aid over the
57:28.4
next for five years so my sense is there
57:32.4
is a lot of Focus on AFP modernization
57:34.2
coast guard modernization that's great
57:35.7
but but that's a little bit long term
57:37.7
right there has to be also more focus on
57:39.1
the shortterm immediate responses and so
57:41.6
far It's Japan was the most useful to us
57:43.4
in a sense in a sense the tinulungan
57:45.7
talaga Iyung Philippine coast guard
57:47.0
binigyan radar system AFP and of course
57:49.7
there's also India and South Korea
57:51.3
helping But I'm not sure us has been
57:54.3
anywhere Close To where it could have
57:56.2
been in terms of being optimally helpful
57:58.6
to us as an Ally Parang hindi
58:00.0
commensurate eh again It's not about
58:03.0
begging our friends it's it's not about
58:06.1
um calling in your friends in fact it's
58:08.5
just about making sure you're using what
58:10.4
you got there Because we shouldn't be
58:12.4
Alone in this fight and we should have
58:14.1
some element of deterrence after all if
58:16.1
we have this alliance and Friends and
58:17.5
all or or my sense is you guys think I'm
58:20.3
just asking too much or I'm pushing it
58:22.3
too much tama naman but ang problema
58:25.6
kasi ganito nito It's more of an issue
58:29.7
Ah yung ino-offer nila is something that
58:33.4
we we either we do not need or we cannot
58:37.9
sustain okay that's why We're Looking at
58:40.9
other other partners in terms of yung sa
58:43.2
acquisition natin because they can
58:45.3
provide us the equipment that we need at
58:47.2
the cost that we are
58:49.1
affordable to us and still ung utility
58:51.7
niya magagamit talaga natin Okay so Alam
58:55.7
mo natin us standard of equipment medyo
58:58.3
quite expensive Okay so Kung meron man
59:01.4
ayuda na galing sa kanila to so for
59:03.7
Support for supporting our defense
59:05.6
posture ah Siguro magc-cr
59:21.3
an f16 So kung yung yung perang ah Iyung
59:26.6
support na ino-offer ng us can be used
59:28.5
to jump start yung acquisition of f16 ah
59:32.2
that's one So you're saying it should be
59:34.5
a full package of support or what about
59:36.2
I don't asking Denmark to give some of
59:38.4
their used FX 16s to us na still could
59:41.7
be very helpful you know not us directly
59:44.0
but asking nato friends Uh nato allies
59:47.2
to do that in our behalf buse they all
59:49.0
want to move to f35 or whatever
59:52.5
right I think Pwede naman eh Ah if we
59:55.6
acquire let's say for example lang ha
59:57.5
this an example an f60 from other
59:59.8
countries not the
60:01.1
US yung yung improvement n system Marin
60:05.1
the funding coming from the US can be
60:07.4
can be used to support to support the
60:09.9
improvement ng aircraft na ion Okay so
60:12.8
if it's a it's an earlier model parang
60:16.2
Bumili ka ng kotse na ano e na lumang
60:18.2
model para ma-upgrade the funding that
60:21.8
we're potentially we're getting can be
60:24.4
used to upscale o o upgrade yung Yung
60:28.0
nabili mong ah ah equipment Okay doon
60:34.7
yon I mean do you think the f16 is
60:39.1
really worth it I mean it's it's for me
60:41.4
kasi parang naging Ano na siya eh
60:43.0
totemic na siya eh ah Parang I've been
60:46.7
seeing all of these fantasies of You
60:48.7
know Philippines air force with the f16
60:51.6
and all of that like a lot of defense
60:53.4
Geek people have been discussing it a
60:54.9
lot of media coverage over it it almost
60:57.2
have has a totemic value which of course
60:59.5
is weird because is a very old
61:01.4
technology Uh in comparison We don't
61:04.1
even have multi vessel and multi fighter
61:06.9
Sorry multi fighter yet na legit so even
61:10.2
that is a big deal for a lot of us Well
61:12.5
of course I'll defer to the air force
61:14.0
Guys kung whether that's the right
61:16.3
platform for us I just an example kasi
61:19.8
Yun nga yung ano yun yung prevalent sa
61:22.8
community conversations eung f16
61:26.4
it be Something Else but
61:30.1
ah kung Babalikan natin yung ano yung
61:33.0
discuss natin about the Ukraine
61:37.4
lear to make a distinction between the
61:39.9
platform and the platform delivery
61:43.0
system ataka yung
61:47.6
weapon ang beauty n Dr the delivery
61:51.9
platform the delivery system rung m
61:57.3
when you take the example of yung f16
61:59.4
the f16 is the platform That's your
62:01.2
delivery system but yung munition mo is
62:04.8
yung payload niya ng ano ng missiles
62:07.8
na nakakabit do so that
62:11.2
means kung from from perspective of cost
62:15.7
you're buying two systems na naky the
62:18.6
delivery platform which is the aircraft
62:21.0
and the munitions which is the
62:26.2
if we go into the conversation of I
62:28.7
think I mention it during the forum Uh
62:31.9
when we look at the When We try to
62:34.8
review yyung modernization Maybe we can
62:36.8
look at yung answer the question of how
62:44.4
iner pero more effectively also Yeah
62:47.7
Pero more effective
62:49.5
Okay more effective that's why best
62:52.6
example would be the drone again Uh as a
62:55.5
chip solution ah but effective
62:59.5
siya kasi mahirap yung ano eh uunahan mo
63:02.3
na I want this type of system without
63:05.9
understanding Saan ang tanong yung
63:07.6
tanong mo dapat e Saan mo ba gagamitin
63:09.4
yan Ano ba yung number one challenge mo
63:15.6
ah if I Look at it from a sa lente ng
63:20.1
from a naval lens ang existential
63:22.8
challenge natin sa West Philippines CR
63:26.0
Navy p Navy Chinese coast guard ataka
63:28.5
Indonesia Okay we part partly solved
63:31.8
that when we acquired yung bram missile
63:34.6
system from India Although hindi pa siya
63:36.5
100% na deliver may
63:39.7
Ah it's not being brought in as fast as
63:43.4
we would like it to be Okay so
63:46.5
technically nandiyan na siya pero hindi
63:49.5
running I'm not Familiar fully
63:52.3
operational Oo hindi pa siya fully
63:54.3
operational but that is one solution
63:57.5
kasi that with that system we don't need
64:00.8
the ship we don't need to buy a ship to
64:04.2
address yung problem okay but It's a
64:07.5
very expensive system and I think you
64:10.4
will reserve that for high value targets
64:13.4
Okay you don't use that to to to hit a
64:16.1
Militia vessel Kasi sabi ko nga yyung
64:18.7
return investment mo doun sa system
64:21.5
versus ung target mo lubi ka okay if you
64:25.0
remember A ung yung analogy ko is pag
64:26.7
pinato ka ng Php1 Maghanap ka ng
64:29.4
pambabato mo ng Php10 lang
64:32.7
Okay ah para mas masakit yung php10 kasi
64:36.6
coin Siya ' ba um Ah
64:39.1
yes Pinatulan ko talaga yung yung
64:42.4
metaphor mo parang Masakit talaga yung
64:44.8
php10 kasi Php100 papel lang eh Ikaw
64:50.7
admiral Mo Bato PH
64:54.2
mas natin mga in 11 days magbabato ako
64:58.2
ng 150 million ba yun ang gusto kong
65:01.8
pangbato SAO admiral pero sa admiral
65:04.8
Ganito na lang ha you know where I'm
65:06.9
coming from obviously you Can someone
65:09.1
watching us could easily say yeah you
65:10.6
can see the guy below is the amateur
65:12.4
because he's all about big big I mean
65:14.4
He's about big strategy but the other
65:16.1
guy is the really expert kasi logistics
65:18.0
siya but the reason why I think I'm a
65:20.1
bit justified pa rin nevertheless
65:21.6
because I'll defer to you on logistical
65:23.3
questions Is is because admiral um I
65:27.0
think there should be some element of
65:29.0
symbolism of modernization a
65:31.7
performativity because as as critical As
65:34.0
I Am of populist performativity and all
65:36.0
of that because kulang tayo sa
65:38.0
self-confidence di ba I mean I've met
65:40.0
many philippinos who don't even know na
65:41.4
meron na tayong modern warships I mean
65:43.7
relatively modern yyung mga nakuha natin
65:45.2
sa Korea ' ba ah yyung you know I wrote
65:48.2
some of them in Philippine Navy Iyung
65:49.7
brp Rizal among other things medyo legit
65:52.0
ah these are pretty good stuff ' ba um
65:55.6
with good electronics missile systems
65:57.2
radar systems not there there But good
65:59.9
enough for me so so i think you need
66:02.5
some of this Uh flashy stuff if i'm if I
66:05.5
can put it noo to just create this kind
66:07.8
of a mindset na mahalaga Iyung National
66:10.0
defense mahalaga Iyung self reliance and
66:12.8
going back to what we're saying hindi
66:14.2
dapat parati umasa tayo sa US guns or
66:16.8
other guns that we can also develop a
66:18.8
decent Uh version of our own the second
66:21.1
aspect to this Uh admiral and I pushback
66:23.6
slightly here is I get all your point
66:26.0
about Good luck naman parang Bumili ka
66:27.8
ng Lamborghini wala kang parking but
66:30.2
minsan pag bumili ka ng Lamborghini
66:32.6
maganahan ka maghanap din ng parking ang
66:35.8
dami kong kilalang tao bumili ng kotse
66:38.9
tapos doon pa lang kumukuha ng lisensya
66:42.2
kasiang Sayang h g magamit ang kotse ko
66:45.0
Excited na ako tuloy biglang nag-aaral
66:47.0
na ng ano nag-aaral na kasi tinatamad
66:49.6
mag mag driving school so Sometimes you
66:53.0
know you could put the the cart before
66:54.8
the horse It Might work right so so I
66:57.6
don't know maybe I'm sounding ridiculous
66:59.4
admiral but ako kasi I'm active on on
67:02.3
Social Media Well I deal with people I
67:05.0
deal with politics public relations Sa
67:07.3
tingin ko medyo kulang talaga tayo ng
67:08.9
that you know that kind of Paz that kind
67:10.8
of vibes of self-confidence That's why I
67:13.4
keep on talk about f16 I I know it
67:15.9
sounds amateurish na ganon but I see the
67:18.8
value I see the it has this kind of a
67:20.9
rallying effect I mean Why would even
67:22.4
bbm go to the fa50 and do all of that
67:25.0
vog vlog and all of that because he also
67:27.0
realizes There's a value to
67:29.0
strengthening yung confidence ng ating
67:30.6
kababayan ah sa arm force of the
67:32.6
Philippines and and Our upward
67:34.2
trajectory and how we have to move kasi
67:36.0
rallying effect din yyan ' ba Am I Am I
67:38.8
being Am I being out of my depths here
67:40.5
Uh admiral we think I'm talking I'm
67:42.7
blabbering here bloating okay
67:46.0
Ah siguro ah ang malapit-lapit doon sa
67:49.2
sinasabi mo Sir what I would be to be
67:51.5
yung high low feet Okay high low feak is
67:54.6
sir ah mix of yyung high-end vessels
67:57.1
very expensive ah has the the Bells and
68:01.8
whel na gusto mo the low one is the low
68:05.0
end type these are yyung pang araw-araw
68:08.0
mong Ano okay pang araw-araw mo So if
68:11.4
you're if you have enough money and you
68:14.6
buy cars so meron kang Lamborghini pero
68:17.2
meron ka ring Toyota yun yung everyday
68:20.2
mo tapos yung lamborg labas mo lang pag
68:22.1
may gawin kang special Oo pero yung yung
68:26.1
yun okay marami yun yung yung
68:29.4
Lamborghini mo siguro isa
